Should I be turning off cab block when recording?

digitald00m

digitald00m

Member
Just got the FM9 this weekend. Previously for recording I was using a Rocktron Voodu Valve and running it straight into the audio interface. At first I was trying to make sure the FM9 could match the quality of sound from the Rocktron so I kept using a parametric eq at the end of the signal chain.

Then I found if I turn off the cabs I get this sound that I can still sculpt but has a big huge frequency of sound. To me it sounds great and I have wider range of tones coming through.

I even tried the flat responce cab hoping that it would not filter out the sound, but it still did just a little less.

I know this may be a serious n00b question, but why use CABs (CAB Blocks in FM9, not CABs in general) if it just imposes an EQ that takes away the full EQ of the guitar?

Has anyone noticed how much less frequencies come out after a cab is used? It sounds like a big filter to me that kills the sound.
 
Historic recordings we all know were made with a mic on a real cab. This mic and cab also filtered the sound.

If you want to record something that sounds like a tradtitional amp and cab, use an amp and cab.

If you want to record the raw amp tone and later experiment, don't use a cab block. This typically is not what a guitar amp sounds like though.
 
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It's really up to you. It was quite common to record a guitar plugged straight into a mixing console, or run through a compressor that was turned up to clipping or what-have-you. Depends on what you're aiming for.

It may help to know that cab blocks very much affect tone. That is why there are 2349586730569206 available IRs, plus Dyna-Cabs. It takes time to find one(s) you like, but that is their purpose. If you prefer to use an EQ or other DAW plugin, this is also a common approach for recording. CAB IRs are generally required for gigging. Other than that, it's totally up to you.
 
elvis said:
It's really up to you. It was quite common to record a guitar plugged straight into a mixing console, or run through a compressor that was turned up to clipping or what-have-you. Depends on what you're aiming for.

It may help to know that cab blocks very much affect tone. That is why there are 2349586730569206 available IRs, plus Dyna-Cabs. It takes time to find one(s) you like, but that is their purpose. If you prefer to use an EQ or other DAW plugin, this is also a common approach for recording. CAB IRs are generally required for gigging. Other than that, it's totally up to you.
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Your count is off by 57, Forward Audio just released a new pack.
 
Yeah there are so many IRs out there! I think I will have some presets without cabs and some with to compare.

I know big bands like Metallica record through mics. Now when I listen to the guitars from the Black album they are huge. I read about people trying to get those tones. Now I know they used a ton of amps etc, so when we hear the guitar part who knows how many different amps its really going through. Really grateful that the FM9 lets me use two amps and cabs, that definitely helps.

So with Dyna-Cabs its not using IRs but it looks to be all software. Are there any advantages to using Dyna-Cabs over IRs?

And how about that Metallica Black sound. Have any of you been able to achieve anything like that?
 
To relate the virtual to the physical...

Traditional IRs is someone handing you a bunch of cabs, each with a microphone duct-taped onto it in a specific position. You try each cab/mic pair, and then use the one you like.

DynaCabs is someone handing you a bunch of cabs, each with an articulated microphone stand attached to it. You pick one of the cabs, and then start moving that microphone around until you hear something you like.
 
digitald00m said:
Has anyone noticed how much less frequencies come out after a cab is used?
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Yes - this is exactly the same as using a real guitar cabinet with a real speaker and a real mic.

Almost every recording of electric guitar you've ever heard was done this way.

digitald00m said:
Now when I listen to the guitars from the Black album they are huge.
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Multiple tracks, post processing, the bass - often overlooked... Listen to isolated guitar tracks.
 
Are there any IRs/Cabs that have barely any EQ taken out? That would potentially not take as much away from the sound?
 
digitald00m said:
Are there any IRs/Cabs that have barely any EQ taken out? That would potentially not take as much away from the sound?
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If you've found a direct in sound you love, continue using it and consider yourself fortunate! For those of us that have been chasing tone for innumerable decades, the invention of IR technology and Fractal level modeling was a godsend, and we seek tones that were virtually impossible to achieve without speaker cab interaction. The cab was never a compromise that "takes away" sound.

Folks can make suggestions, but it might help to hear examples of the kinds of sounds you like to dial in. Mention a style perhaps? Rather than looking for a toneless speaker, you might be better off messing with eq and compression. And congrats on the FM9! Cheers, Daniel
 
Here is an example of the kind of tone I would be shooting for:



Hear all the mid and upper range frequencies? Those all seem to disappear when I turn on cab emulation. I do realize I’m a n00b at this and perhaps I am selecting the wrong cabs. Now I know the recording was mic’d. I believe it’s possible just not sure why all the cabs I use cut off the high end.
 
digitald00m said:
Here is an example of the kind of tone I would be shooting for:



Hear all the mid and upper range frequencies? Those all seem to disappear when I turn on cab emulation. I do realize I’m a n00b at this and perhaps I am selecting the wrong cabs. Now I know the recording was mic’d. I believe it’s possible just not sure why all the cabs I use cut off the high end.
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My 90's rig was basically designed around the same gear Metallica was using at the time. The mic'd tone on record is band limited. Are you leaving in a lot of bass that's overshadowing the brightness of the higher frequencies?
 
The high end for me there until I add the cab and then it disappears. I keep trying to throw a parametric EQ and the end to boost the mid/high's but that seems to rarely work.
 
guitar world quote: "Further depth and texture was added by overdubbing a Jerry Jones baritone tuned an octave lower than the guitar, while additional overdubs consisted solely of muted string “chuks” to enhance the percussiveness of the attack."
 
I forget which cabs man there are so many! It was various 4x12s that I thought would have Celestians. What cabs would you recommend for this?
 
I don't have a specific recommendation at the moment, but I think you might want to consider mixing into whatever cab you choose rather than thinking of them as add ons. You mention adding post-eq, but those Mesa amps were typically dialed in with some extreme shaping happening in the built in graphics due to the location of the primary tone stack being before the preamp stage (depending on the model).

This might be the time where the forum members say "post a preset." :) But, I would definitely start with a cab in place while you tone shape.

Edit: Lots of Metallica rig experts on here with sometimes direct knowledge of what they are/were doing. Not sure how much you've scoured the forum. "Sad But True tone replication" is a very different consideration than "should I use a cab?"
 
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stephanfm3 said:
guitar world quote: "Further depth and texture was added by overdubbing a Jerry Jones baritone tuned an octave lower than the guitar, while additional overdubs consisted solely of muted string “chuks” to enhance the percussiveness of the attack."
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Baritone explains the lower tones. I hear the overdubbed chugs, extreme gating, and other time-based processing. So many isolated guitar parts are all kinds of drama in eq moves. And we really want the source tracks, not extracted composite tracks when picking out detail at this level. Not sure if the example given was from the multi-track master or not.
 
digitald00m said:
Previously for recording I was using a Rocktron Voodu Valve and running it straight into the audio interface.
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You've been running a preamp straight to the board, with no power amp or cab. It's pretty rare to do that, but that's the sound you've grown accustomed to. If that's what you like and that's what your want, go for it.
 
I believe you can totally achieve what you want with both the IRs and Dyna Cabs. The former may cause option paralysis so maybe start with Dyna Cabs, the Mesa 4x12, stick the Condenser mic right in the centre default position, and tell me there's no highs and mids in there!

Try adding a ribbon mic as the second one, same cab, and back the volume off on it so you're mostly using the cut of the condenser.

But @rockstarjazzcat is bang on in saying you can try dialing in a tone after you've picked your cab or IR. If you are running the USA Lead Mid Gain model dialed in like the real thing, with the output EQ in a V shape, you're most of the way there. My real Mark IV can of course nail the Black Album, and the FM9 can do a damn good job too. You've inspired me to try harder... And you can definitely get there.

If a less traditional cab sound does it for you, play on buddy.
 
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