setting live patch levels via daw and real time metering

B

boogieman75

Experienced
Here is what I did...

Step 1- I used the looper block, strummed a full G chord and copied the block to the beginning of each patch i wanted to compare levels against.

Step 2- I loaded my DAW, which in this case is SONAR 8.5 Producer edition.

Step 3- I loaded the izotope ozone EQ effect plugin or a VST plugin that shows metering. (May or may not need this, but I like the metering via plugin vs the standard sonar input meters)

Step 4- enabled echo on in sonar for real time metering

Step 5- I took my main patch that i use for live enabled the looper block and noted the results on the meter bridge...-18.4 to be exact. I also set the axe fx 2 output 1 to the same level I use live which is feeding our foh at 9:00.

Step 6- Using my Yamaha's Hs80m as reference, I went through each patch and enabled the looper that plays the exact same chord repeatedly and adjusted the level on the AMP block to match the -18.4 output that I was getting from my original patch. I did this with my amp x/y configurations for clean and dirty amps. I also enabled all my effects such as delay and reverb blocks to make sure the volume stays at -18.4 no matter what I threw at it


I think I achieved better accurate results this way vs using an actual SPL meter...I am wondering if anyone else has tried a similar approach to this method or if there are suggestions to make this process better?

Thanks!
 
Tried something similiar in the past - just reamp a DI signal through the different presets - in fact the same result like using the looper. Matched all presets to the same output peak. On the next rehearsal i found out, that this won`t work, because of the different dynamics from clean to more compressed gain tones ... give it up ...

For me, i work at home on my presets and play some chords in the rehearsal-room through my active wedge monitor with really loud volume and match the levels from there .... much better ...
 
Ive have wondered why this would not work my self.
So the question is have you used your rig since in a
live setting at volume? If so, how did it work out?
Are you using clean, mid gain, and high gain patches?
I almost did the same thing the other day, even thought
about putting a room mic and comparing the two.
 
The easiest way to get volumes leveled is to use the feature built into the AXE FX for doing this.

First you may not actually WANT them to be exactly the same. Certain songs and presets are going to need more volume when the band is really rocking out.

I don't think of it as "same level" as much as being the "right level"

Step 1 .... get it close. as close as you think you can using your ears at home.

Step 2 Assign a couple of CC#s on your midi controller to the volume up and volume down parameters in the AXE FX. These will either boost or cut the output volume in 1db increments and save the patch at that new volume. Next time you call it up the patch will be at the new volume.

Step 3 Play a couple shows live. If it's not loud enough step on the "volume UP" CC# a time or two. (or if it just ripped your head off step it down)

After a gig or two.... it's all ready to go.
 
Tedge said:
Step 2 Assign a couple of CC#s on your midi controller to the volume up and volume down parameters in the AXE FX
Click to expand...

Sorry a bit confused here...when you say this are you referring to the global volume up and down or the amp level up and down?

I am mostly using low-mid gain with a slight break-up and slightly over driven in all of my patches...even the clean tone is not that clean...just on the verge of breakup.

Thanks!
 
boogieman, could you elaborate a bit more as to how and where you use your AxeFx rig in performance, and at what volume level using what speakers/monitors?

edit: some of the other posts have addressed some of my concerns here. If there is a certain "sameness" across all of your presets, then this MIGHT work at the gig. I can see this being the case, for example, if your only gig is a weekly house of worship gig where you're playing only support rhythm guitar and there is very little variation of the environment from performance to performance. Otherwise, I agree 100% with Tredge...this is a trial and error thing that has to be worked out over multiple gigs, and the more variables in the equation (wide variety of tones, mixes of lead & rhythm work, different venues that you'd see on a club circuit, etc.), the less likely balancing levels using a DAW level meter would work/translate. JMHO.
 
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jimfist said:
boogieman, could you elaborate a bit more as to how and where you use your AxeFx rig in performance, and at what volume level using what speakers/monitors?
Click to expand...

Sure! I am going direct to our own foh system from output 1 at 9:00. I am using a mipro wireless iem system with future sonic drivers. We have a mixer/monitor rolling rack that we adjust from the stage to custom our own mixes of what we hear in our ears.

Hope this helps
 
ahh...ok. That does help. IEM mixing for performance is a different animal that "traditional" amp/speaker combo rigs used for typical club performance by lots of players. There are some forum members who do what you're doing, so I'd give this thread some time to develop and see if they chime in with their experiences. I don't do IEM, so I'll bow out at this point.
 
I agree with what has been discussed thus far....different amps and gain have different dynamics and it is hard to match levels exact. However I feel with the method I described I am pretty close to being in the ballpark where the volumes are not too drastic between patches.
 
+1 for using this to get in the ballpark quickly. You'll always need to tweak it by ear and by needs, but I've had good luck with this. I monitor in Logic and funnily enough set things close to -18 RMS as in the OP. I use the FreeG plugin meter and monitor both the RMS as well as peak levels and judge from there. Some tones have a bigger difference than others between average levels and peak so you can use your adjustment to how you want certain patches levelled compared to others. But this method works well if you need to level things and can't crank it up. When you do, I think you'll find that you're very close on most patches and after tweaking manually from there a time or two, you should be there.
 
CodePoet said:
+1 for using this to get in the ballpark quickly. You'll always need to tweak it by ear and by needs, but I've had good luck with this. I monitor in Logic and funnily enough set things close to -18 RMS as in the OP. I use the FreeG plugin meter and monitor both the RMS as well as peak levels and judge from there. Some tones have a bigger difference than others between average levels and peak so you can use your adjustment to how you want certain patches levelled compared to others. But this method works well if you need to level things and can't crank it up. When you do, I think you'll find that you're very close on most patches and after tweaking manually from there a time or two, you should be there.
Click to expand...

Do you use in ears for live? My band mates will not hesitate to tell me if the patch levels are off in their ears :) and using IEM is probably the best way to adjust levels....I have a recent sound board recording of a live show, i think I will remove the guitar track and adjust the patches till i get them tweaked perfectly and using the full recorded mix is probably a good last phase of testing this method. Using the level meters should be a good visual where I am sitting in the mix as well :)

Thanks!
 
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