Recording

andyp13

andyp13

Power User
I am recording some guitar parts for an album and am finding the only way I can get a good guitar sound is by micing (or is it miking) up my 1x12 cab.... Which means late evening recording is out of the question.
I have tried the cab blocks and find that they all sound very naisly and the only difference seems to be a naisly tone with lots of bass or a naisly tone with lots of treble - or both.
I just can't dial out the naisly tone. Any tips - or is this typical of direct recording?
 
andyp13 said:
I am recording some guitar parts for an album and am finding the only way I can get a good guitar sound is by micing (or is it miking) up my 1x12 cab.... Which means late evening recording is out of the question.
I have tried the cab blocks and find that they all sound very naisly and the only difference seems to be a naisly tone with lots of bass or a naisly tone with lots of treble - or both.
I just can't dial out the naisly tone. Any tips - or is this typical of direct recording?
Click to expand...

Do you find any of the recordings posted to this forum to be okay?
 
andyp13 said:
I am recording some guitar parts for an album and am finding the only way I can get a good guitar sound is by micing (or is it miking) up my 1x12 cab.... Which means late evening recording is out of the question.
I have tried the cab blocks and find that they all sound very naisly and the only difference seems to be a naisly tone with lots of bass or a naisly tone with lots of treble - or both.
I just can't dial out the naisly tone. Any tips - or is this typical of direct recording?
Click to expand...
I have the same problem. Although, I realize that it is my lack of recording expertise that is the problem. I have heard many good recordings done.
 
aziz said:
Make an IR of your own cab, then it will be indistinguishable from the real thing but direct.
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I agree with aziz. This would be your best bet.

Always strive to get your best tone right at the source when recording, so that you only have to do minimal processing in your DAW.
 
jlynnb1 said:
you guys are either using the wrong ir's or have no idea what your guitar sounds like at speaker level.
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It could be global settings in the Fractal or the way it is patched for recording or something else.

I can get a pretty decent recording tone with just a Marshall amp block and the factory TV mix IR. Everything at default. Works for my Les Paul and Strat. Just sounds like a good basic Marshall tone.
 
aziz said:
No? Make an IR of your own cab, then it will be indistinguishable from the real thing but direct.
Click to expand...

I will look at making an IR of my cab as I love the sound of my Axe FX in to my 1x12 cab, is there a good (and easy to understand) tutorial explaining how to do this? I have no idea where to start etc.....
 
Scratch that, found a great tutorial, is it best to have Cab lab or would I be able to get decent results without it?
 
Cab lab isn't necessary but really is a great tool to have. As far as the tone, how do other recordings sound? Do you have studio headphones to listen through? The nasty freq's could be a product of your listening environment
 
jlynnb1 said:
you guys are either using the wrong ir's or have no idea what your guitar sounds like at speaker level.
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Im gonna say this guy hit the nail on the head .. i get amazing tones from factory presets when i match the right guitar to the axe ...

I got in an email flurry with a user passing audio clips back and forth ... he was changing this that and the other .. .after like 2 hours he said, I give, all yours sound better ... I was using factory presets and turning on just a hint of dynamic delay and just a whisper of reverb ... i had tweaked no more than 20 seconds on anything ... but, I was switching between like 5 different guitars with different pickups in them ... :) ... and that is something to keep in mind, the sims are SO much more sensitive to different guitar setups and pickups than ANY amp I have EVER plugged into ... so, it has been a crucial integral part of my time is matching the guitar to the sound I'm looking for!
 
jlynnb1 said:
you guys are either using the wrong ir's or have no idea what your guitar sounds like at speaker level.
Click to expand...
I cant speak for andyp13, but the problem is not the sound of the AXE FX2. It sounds great when I am recording through the monitors. The problem is when I do playback. It sounds very different. I have tried in both Sonar3 and Audacity going straight in with USB. I don't use any plugins and the eqs are flat. I am sure it is user error. Just not sure what I am doing wrong.
 
You don't need Cab-Lab to make an IR. The unit has IR capture built right in.

Now... with that said...

Recording direct never sounds the same as recording with an actual guitar cab nearby. Even if you shoot an IR of that cab and mic combo. Why? Because when you play with a cab nearby the sound waves from the cab couple into the guitar body and strings and change the tone. It's a type of feedback loop. It's actually quite dramatic. I did some measurements years ago. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was a substantial low-mid boost, maybe 2-3 dB IIRC, perhaps more.

You can get something similar using monitors but you need to have them loud which defeats the whole purpose I suppose.

When you record with a cab (or monitor) nearby (and loud) it dramatically changes the resulting recording. The sound is smoother, warmer and less spikey (less nasal).

Now... with all THAT said...

Dephase was specifically designed to give some of that smoothing that occurs when you record with a cab nearby. It smooths out the spikeyness in the response and makes IRs less nasal. Combine that with some low cut and high cut in the cab block and some mid-boost before the amp block and you can get some stellar results.

I record at low volumes all the time so I've learned how to compensate for the lack of acoustic reinforcement in my presets but, even then, nothing beats playing and recording with the monitors cranked up or a loud cab.
 
I should add that with modelers people forget the all-important acoustic part of the equation. The electric guitar isn't a synthesizer. It's an acoustic instrument with transducers on it. When you bang on the body you hear that. When you are playing the sound waves from the cab hit the body and strings and reinforce the vibrations. When you record with headphones or at low volumes you lose all that interaction.
 
FractalAudio said:
You don't need Cab-Lab to make an IR. The unit has IR capture built right in.

Now... with that said...

Recording direct never sounds the same as recording with an actual guitar cab nearby. Even if you shoot an IR of that cab and mic combo. Why? Because when you play with a cab nearby the sound waves from the cab couple into the guitar body and strings and change the tone. It's a type of feedback loop. It's actually quite dramatic. I did some measurements years ago. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was a substantial low-mid boost, maybe 2-3 dB IIRC, perhaps more.

You can get something similar using monitors but you need to have them loud which defeats the whole purpose I suppose.

When you record with a cab (or monitor) nearby (and loud) it dramatically changes the resulting recording. The sound is smoother, warmer and less spikey (less nasal).

Now... with all THAT said...

Dephase was specifically designed to give some of that smoothing that occurs when you record with a cab nearby. It smooths out the spikeyness in the response and makes IRs less nasal. Combine that with some low cut and high cut in the cab block and some mid-boost before the amp block and you can get some stellar results.

I record at low volumes all the time so I've learned how to compensate for the lack of acoustic reinforcement in my presets but, even then, nothing beats playing and recording with the monitors cranked up or a loud cab.
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how much volume would you say it'd take to get that interaction in a home recording situation with the monitors pointed at the guitar?
 
Hey, now that's something i'd never thought about beyond the good old feedback/sustain at loud volume thing. Nice insight, thanks boss!
 
To add on what Cliff is talking about...the beautiful thing about the Axe-Fx is I can use the fx loop out block to my PA/Cabinet, and still record direct while using the cabinet sitting next to me as my monitor for what I'm playing. Doesn't have to be crazy loud this way, and you can get natural feedback while still hearing the metronome and normal feed from your studio monitors. Love it.
 
Brownmatthall said:
how much volume would you say it'd take to get that interaction in a home recording situation with the monitors pointed at the guitar?
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Depends on how close the monitors are. If the monitors are quite close you can get that interaction at fairly low levels. OTOH with the monitors close you run the risk of "tweeter squeal".

The sound from a monitor decreases by roughly the square of the distance (assuming you're in the far field). So if you move a monitor from, say, 8 feet away to 4 feet away the acoustic power will be approx. four times as great.
 
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