Questions about Axe FX from a possible buyer . . .

pauly said:
Gday BDA,
First, let me say that I got my first axe fx 2 a few years ago, then got a second unit so the studio could record 'drums only' so you could say I'm a fan.

Headphones are great with the unit however they are still headphones :) if you can enjoy headphones you'll love the unit.
As far as latency goes it's never been an issue for me, or others that have used it in my studio. It's never been mentioned at all in fact - not an issue. Having said that, there was some guy made a post in these forums recently saying he perceived some latency so double check just to be sure. I think the actual latency equates to a mic one or two feet from a speaker so he must be very sensitive I would think.
Internet forums are interesting places with all manner of individuals - worse than reality because everyone is behind a screen an some leave their humility entirely. Having said that - my experience with the fractal forums, (and the kemper ones for that matter) have been mostly positive. There are a few members in my twit filter list, but not many. The vast majority here just want to help.

With that out of the way, I have tried many guitar amp modellers over the years, but none have ever come close to the axe fx. When I plug a guitar into it, often I'll just end up playing for hours because it sounds so good. There is nothing as good as this unit imho.

Hope you enjoy it too. And welcome!

Thanks
Pauly
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Thank you Pauly!! It sounds like you have processed thru several of the issues that I have been pondering.

In my recording situation, I enjoy the blessing of having a separate drum room from two other isolated booths for (presumably amps) so it's not imperative that we use the AXE to accomplish "guitar-free drum tracks" but it certainly would simplify the process if we knew we'd only be re-tracking guitars again, if only to double a take or overdub the original performance.

While it's not relevant to this discussion, I would like to mention that one of the reasons I sought to learn more about the Fractal product is simply because with the Kemper . . . it feels somewhat unethical to "steal another product's sound" and then, in many cases, return the product (say an amazing Bogner, Friedman, Diezel or the like) for a refund or simply pass around "stolen souls" to others that ALSO won't buy the real machinery . . . At least the AXE FX is it's own product, in a fair, competitive marketplace. It stands on its own. You might get it to sound EXACTLY like a JJ-100 but that would be due to your individual skills at cultivating that sound YOURSELF. You didn't just buy some cool thing that "xerox's the JJ" and then you go on about your business. It reminds me of when there was ALBUMS before the internet . . . a time I still cherish . . . and I'll be damned if I'm gonna do the same thing with Reinhold Bogner's genius.

Anyway, the responses to my original post are continuing to pop up so I'll stop preaching and participate again. You all seem like a great bunch of music/guitar loving people and I am enjoying being part of this forum. Thank all you you again. :)
 
Latency is already basically a non-issue. In theory, since our range of hearing goes up to around 20kHz, the smallest time delay we can detect through sound is around 0.05 ms. In practice though, anything below around 3 to 5 ms just blurs together for most people. As others have stated, sound takes time to get to you even from a real tube amp. At around 1125 feet per second, sound travels around 1.125 feet each millisecond. That means the difference between 1.3 ms and zero ms of source latency equates to moving a little less than 1.5 feet closer to your amp. If you can detect a difference in the feel of a real tube amp by moving 1.5 feet closer or further from the cab, then the Axe's latency will be noticeable.

As far as delivery, Fractal is up in New Hampshire, so even regular ground shipping would get to you in a couple of days in Virginia.
 
Headphones are a tough one. You are definitely limited by how good they are, and how you've tweaked. I love my Blue Mofi's, but found lesser units do not have the fidelity that these do. YMMV.

I will respond to the elephant in the room: Criticism, the CONSTRUCTIVE type, is encouraged. It's makes the product better (by virtue that many Fractal employees, as well as the owner, are on here daily.) We do find that some show up here with a noticeable chip (always apparent when the word 'fanboi' makes it's appearance in a post,) there have been incidents, but the ones who are legitimately here to learn, chase tone, and participate are welcomed always. We are here to help, but as in all things, a level of work needs to be done on your part as well. There is a steep learning curve for those not conversant with the innards of amps/FX/MIDI. I suffered from this as well, but there is a HUGE amount of help in the form of tutorials, youtube vids, the search function on this site, and instructionals (see Chris at http://axefxtutorials.com/ for how to set up the many things you'll want to explore.) This forum exists to help, and I can guarantee that you will not ask a question that has not been asked many times, and we'll help anytime someone gets 'stuck'.

This is a great product, the best in it's field. I would suggest that you take advantage of the 15 day return policy, and give it a shot. You will not be disappointed.

-R
 
Bark Dark Aardvark Bark said:
Since I brought up the issue of latency, I am wondering that in time, as the software that drives this machine is inevitably improved upon, it seems reasonable that the issue of latency could eventually be virtually a non-issue. Someone mentioned that if you stand a few feet from a tube amp, there's obviously latency as the sound travels from the amp to your ears . . . so 1.3 ms seems microscopic . . . and it will likely be improved upon eventually.
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For the vast majority of users, latency is already a non-issue. It's possible you will be in that group.
-
Austin
 
The Axe-Fx II is a great product! I first bought an Ultra based solely on user feedback, then I moved up to an Axe-Fx II a few years ago. I previously liked rack mount effects units but they were far from perfect. The Axe-Fx II is great on multiple levels; bedroom playing, studio recording, and live performance. You can choose to use it just for effects if you have an amp/cabinet solution you already like, or you can use the amp and cabinet modeling. Some people will use the amp modeling without the cab modeling and use a power amp (like Matrix) and a cabinet to get an amp in the room sound. You can also go the FRFR route (like Atomic CLR) and take full advantage of everything under the hood!

If you download the owners manual, or just breeze through the Wiki, you can see how much meticulous detail went into product design. So many parameters are controllable on the fly and you can customize your pedalboard setup as you see fit.

Scenes are an indispensable function that allows up to 8 variations of bypass modes and level changes, plus control of parameters with Scene controllers.

I would highly recommend buying one direct from Fractal and if you don't like it, you could send it back. Or, see if anyone near you has one to try out. Best of luck in your quest!
 
electronpirate said:
Headphones are a tough one. You are definitely limited by how good they are, and how you've tweaked. I love my Blue Mofi's, but found lesser units do not have the fidelity that these do. YMMV.
-R
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My question about the headphones was based almost solely upon the premise that I could take this unit and a guitar with me when I go on a "family vacation" for a week or more and be able to hang back from the constant madness and just play for an hour or two every day if I wanted to . . . so often, if I'm traveling, music gets trampled and halfway thru the trip, I'm miserable. Having something that sounds stellar to take with me would be great. The fact that if I conjure up anything on the laptop that I'd wanna KEEP, that would also be an option!!
 
Gday again BDA,

Cool!

Another thing about the kemper vs the fractal - the kemper samples an amp AND its settings. The fractal actually emulates the amplifier circuit - this is a strong delineation and was a large part of the reason I chose to get a second axe fx, instead of a kemper - So- when you turn the treble up to 8 on the fractal, it's like you've done that on the amplifier your modelling, instead of some approximation. I did a lot of research when shopping .. to be sure :)

Anyway - go get your unit - the only thing you'll regret is waiting so long.

Thanks
Pauly


Bark Dark Aardvark Bark said:
Thank you Pauly!! It sounds like you have processed thru several of the issues that I have been pondering.

In my recording situation, (snip)

Anyway, the responses to my original post are continuing to pop up so I'll stop preaching and participate again. You all seem like a great bunch of music/guitar loving people and I am enjoying being part of this forum. Thank all you you again. :)
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Bark Dark Aardvark Bark said:
3. One of the things I've learned seems to be "common knowledge" since I started investigating this machinery was that the people who come on to THIS FORUM and criticize the Fractal machine will be lambasted with insults and profanity . . . which I didn't see any criticisms to critique, so it made it worth asking. In one instance, it was inferred that the owner of the company even chimed in to hammer on a critical voice . . . which is kinda weird . . . but again . . . is there "no tolerance for criticism" here?
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Watch out for that "common knowledge" stuff, especially when it comes to audio forums and guitar gear in general. Much of it is bogus. :)

Once in a while, people come here specifically to start trouble (example: a new member yelling "Fanboy!" right out of the gate; talk about self-fulfilling prophesies...). They tend to not be well received. And once in a while, an honest question or criticism will be misinterpreted. That happens everywhere. But the truth is, you'll be hard-pressed to find a forum with a higher helpfulness/friendliness ratio. Search the forum and you'll see what I mean.

On quite a few occasions, a criticism has turned into a new feature.
 
Bark Dark Aardvark Bark said:
Since I brought up the issue of latency, I am wondering that in time, as the software that drives this machine is inevitably improved upon, it seems reasonable that the issue of latency could eventually be virtually a non-issue.
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Latency is already a non-issue. It's imperceptible.
 
From an old post of mine:
"I did a series of measures too just to check if we had an issue or not and found the "latency" of Q1 not only same as 19 but actually negligible. On a preset with amp and cab, the latency is less than 2ms, which is like being 2 feet from your speaker! And on a preset with 13 blocks including pitch, delay, rotary, etc, the latency is 2.2 ms. That's just amazingly low!"

I doubt that this is going to get less with time. AD and DA conversions plus the actual processing by the DSP is pretty much what it is. But that is so negligible as to be almost funny. I doubt anyone plays with their ears less than 2 feet from their cab to feel less latency from their tube amps! :D;)
 
Honestly if you bought it and didn't like it (and you didn't return it within the allotted 15 days ...) you could sell it in a heartbeat. Demand is high ...
 
Rex said:
Watch out for that "common knowledge" stuff, especially when it comes to audio forums and guitar gear in general. Much of it is bogus.
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Exactly!

That third question is about the most tactful and polite way of asking "Are you really the assholes the rest of the internet says you are?" and yet no one felt the need to pounce, probably because the question reads like it comes from a genuine place. I've seen Cliff shut down more threads for attacks than I've seen where he participates in them. It's the Glenn Fricker types that call us jerks anyway... Just about every complaint I've EVER read about the fractal forums comes from someone who seems to be frothing at the mouth and generally hostile themselves. I've seen misunderstandings happen here, sure, but I've never been to another forum as helpful as this one. Ever.

As far as the actual device goes... Count me in with the folks who say it's the best musical purchase they've ever made. No other purchase except for maybe the very first guitar that got the obsession rolling has had this much impact on my music and quality of life as a musician. I've learned more about circuit design and dialing in tone than I ever did while playing high end amps, and I've owned my fair share... I'm a little ashamed of that, but truth is truth!

I say try the free trial and poke around the forums for a bit. Both are a rare gem!
 
I used to gig with a Line 6 Relay wireless plugged into the Axe FX 2+. I never noticed any latency with that combination so having a complete wire isn't going to be a problem. I can't play through a Windows PC because the latency of Windows processing the sound is too long, but that is Windows not The Axe.

When deciding whether to buy one of the these I lurked here, over at the Kemper forum, and also at several other forums.
The Kemper guys were pretty offhand or rude at times. Some of the other forums were downright offensive when the Axe FX or Kemper was mentioned. These days it all seems to have sorted itself out and everyone seems much more balanced.
Maybe it's because rock music tends to attract angry teenagers who just grew up and got laid.

Also, when it comes down to it, an Axe FX *is* just an expensive POD. But there are very good reasons for that expense in terms of quality, components, functionality, software, sound, etc. I bought into this about 3 years ago and the unit has improved beyond recognition through constant software updates. It is totally opposite to the Line 6 ethos of adding important functionality to a *new* version in the hope that everyone will upgrade by buying a whole new unit. Cliff adds new functionality to the old units until they are not capable of supporting it any more. He could have quite easily forced people to upgrade in order to get Quantum firmware updates and the fact that he didn't says an awful lot about him and Fractal Audio.

The bottom line is that the Axe FX, regardless of anything else, sounds better and is much more versatile than nearly everything else out there.
I am not even sure what the exceptions to the rule are any more!
 
Welcome.

Look, comparing the AXE to a POD stops once you hear them side by side. An expensive POD? I have to say no way. What you have done there is granted POD the right to be an "umbrella brand" name over all modelers - kind of like Xerox has with photocopiers or Kleenex has with "facial tissue." It's not warranted though.

POD was the the most popular of the early modelers, and so that's how that happened, but things have changed... a LOT.
To address another earlier commenter, I personally am not "sensitive" to other brands being mentioned. I just tell it like it is, and the AXE is not like any L6 product. I know, because I own 3 POD products, and have used them a ton. They are great to practice with (Guitarport + my PC + Transcribe software or Itunes has been a late night go-to for about 15 years now.) But record with one? No way. Demo's for writing... sure. All the time. But the sound is plasticy and thin and unsophisticated. (Talking about older POD's - I have no experience with Helix, (which is an interesting name now isn't it. But I digress...) )

I've seen L6 gear on pro stages, namely the green and blue modulation and delay modelers, but that's about it. A bean? Never. (Not claiming I've seen every pro stage though.)
One look at the who's who list of artists actually USING the Axe FX should answer this question for you.

As for "really expensive" ... compared to what? That's the quesiton you have to ask.

Price a TC G Force, or a Eventide Eclipse, or a Swtitchblade... or a single Bogner head.
The performance you get for the cost is high value. The effects alone (and the routing) are worth the price. That's a fact that's hard to argue with. That's why you are seeing this thing in SO MANY real pro rigs now.

Now..

Headphones: Fantastic. Grab a set of AT ATM-50s and rock out. To me this is a ton of fun. I play using IEM's anyway many times, so this is a natural state for me.

Latency: I don't notice any detectable latency at all. None. (it might be there, but I can't here it, so it's a non issue) When I ADD latency ON PURPOSE in a DAW (like putting 7-10ms of delay on one side to make things wider) I can here that. But If you're playing direct guitar to Axe to sound source (speaker or headphone), it's really no different than a real amp to me.

Finally, I've not seen a lot of flaming/profanity on this forum at all, and I'm on here almost daily. I've seen some, but it's only a couple of people. Debates? Sure. What fun would we be without that? Some level of raving fanism? You bet. It's warranted and earned I'd say.

Overall, the vast majority of frequent responders are very fair and cool, and tons of help to users. This is a stable, friendly, and pretty "professional" forum.

The AXE is a great piece of gear. Give it a shot.

EDIT: Not my best post. I myself sound like a raving fanboy now don't I...
 
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