Question on the expression pedal for two functions. How?

Dutch

Dutch

Fractal Fanatic
Since there are only two exp ports on the FM3 I would like for one expression pedal to both control volume and use it as wah or Whammy or the likes. Problem is that I usually have the volume at 80%, so not full on. And I can't have the volume on full when I want to use wah if it's usually on 80%, I'd be blaring. It should stay the same.

I would like to use the other port for a dual button switch for other functions like tap tempo/tuner and Drive1 bypass, which is my most used button on my AX8. Also would like to not have too much stuff on my board. I like it small. Midi port is taken too by an MD-BT01 that receives the presets from my iPad.

Anyone know of a way?
 
If I understand correctly this may help guide the way. Pedal Applications
You could set min/max on vol modifier.

There are some other YT videos by forum members/Fractal users regarding same/similar setups.
 
If you increase the volume block's level parameter a bit you can make the bypassed volume equal to the volume with block engaged and pedal at 80%. It would always go to 80% or whatever offset you create though. To stay at any random level when switching to wah this would need to be done with MIDI and some way to toggle the pedal CC#.
 
Best option here is to use scenes to activate/deactivate blocks that the expression pedal is linked to. You can then use a second Volume block, or the Scene Levels page in the output block to get the volumes between them as close as possible. Quick and dirty .syx attached!
 

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Basically I ride the volume a lot. I play in a worship band where the volume of the music has quite a bit of dynamics. I can't leave it at unity constantly because I'm sometimes too loud and other times too soft. I need to have control over the volume with a bit of headroom left to push a bit more. And sometimes I use it for swells. So it's not always at 80% either, it moves about quite a bit. I need it to stay at the volume it's at when using the pedal for something else. That's what I meant to say.

I'm desperately trying to reconcile all my wants with the constraints the FM3 puts on me.
 
Mission Engineering makes (or used to make) something called the "Expressionator".

You could switch between 2-3 expression outputs and it maintained the "position" of each one.

The other recommendation I would make is to check out the AudioFront Expression IO. A small and inexpensive way to add more expression/switch jacks via midi.

I use one with my FM9 to connect 4 expression pedals and use the FM9 jacks for 3 external switches.

It's got other cool abilities but that's all I need it for.

Edit:

The Expressionator won't help as it has multiple expression output jacks

Edit 2:

I'm pretty sure you can use the MIDI Transformer within the Expression IO to select which CC an expression pedal sends, so you could have a single pedal that's selectable between values/functions. And since it's midi, any change of pedal function should not change the current state of whatever it was previously controlling.

You'd need a way to trigger that change, so would probably require a switch, but if you're space/weight constrained it's another option.
 
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Dutch said:
Since there are only two exp ports on the FM3 I would like for one expression pedal to both control volume and use it as wah or Whammy or the likes. Problem is that I usually have the volume at 80%, so not full on. And I can't have the volume on full when I want to use wah if it's usually on 80%, I'd be blaring. It should stay the same.

I would like to use the other port for a dual button switch for other functions like tap tempo/tuner and Drive1 bypass, which is my most used button on my AX8. Also would like to not have too much stuff on my board. I like it small. Midi port is taken too by an MD-BT01 that receives the presets from my iPad.

Anyone know of a way?
Click to expand...
Dutch said:
Basically I ride the volume a lot. I play in a worship band where the volume of the music has quite a bit of dynamics. I can't leave it at unity constantly because I'm sometimes too loud and other times too soft. I need to have control over the volume with a bit of headroom left to push a bit more. And sometimes I use it for swells. So it's not always at 80% either, it moves about quite a bit. I need it to stay at the volume it's at when using the pedal for something else. That's what I meant to say.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s possible using the built-in functionality. You need a sample and hold to maintain the pedal settings that samples immediately before switching the pedal to a different block, and that is not available.

I think a MIDI controller, like an MC-8 might be a better path. Run the MD-BT01 into the MIDI in, hook up two foot pedals, and use the switches for whatever. Or, get a Fractal FC6 which will expand the number of pedals and switches you can use. The FM3+FC6 with the OMG9 layout is a great combination.

Alternatively you could use http://dbinstrumentamp.com/products/4e-dual-axis-expression-pedal/

I use both the Dunlop (X) Mini pedals and Fractal’s EV-2 pedals and both work great and are smaller than the usual ones. The Dunlop are the smaller of the two but the Fractals look and feel more robust.
 
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If you need full time control of volume, that will likely need to have it's own dedicated controller. You can always add additional expression pedals and switches via MIDI, so you're not necessarily limited to the two pedal jacks on the FM3.
 
If you were going to go with two pedals, I'd recommend using both jacks for expression, and using MIDI for switches. I expect the FM3 will do a good job of smoothing control from MIDI CC, but it probably won't be as snappy/responsive as the built-in exp ADC. Whereas speed/response won't be as much of an issue when using MIDI for switching.
 
stub said:
If you were going to go with two pedals, I'd recommend using both jacks for expression, and using MIDI for switches. I expect the FM3 will do a good job of smoothing control from MIDI CC, but it probably won't be as snappy/responsive as the built-in exp ADC. Whereas speed/response won't be as much of an issue when using MIDI for switching.
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Based on actual experience for more than a year, there's no issue at all. I don't notice any difference and I use them direct to FC-12 for my Axe Fx and midi to FM9.

The advantage of using the onboard jacks for switches is they can be used as stand-in switches, and that isn't possible with midi switches.
 
Yeah in theory, the 128 possible values of MIDI CC messages limits the resolution of the controller, but in practice this is not really an issue with expression pedals. Try accurately moving your foot 1/128th of the pedal's total travel let alone any smaller of a fraction than that.

Put another way, if you compared it to an amp knob labelled from 0 to 10, you'd still have enough resolution for more than 11 steps between each number on the knob.

With a volume pedal, 1 dB is the smallest difference in level we can consistently perceive, meaning you'd need more than 128 dB of range on that volume pedal to realistically be in limited in that regard. The noise floor in a guitar rig is typically well above that and it would max out at 144 dB for 24 bit audio anyway.
 
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It is true that my comment is based on "theory" rather than a detailed analysis comparing built-in expression accuracy response vs MIDI CC. The issue I referred is only partially related to the limited resolution. There are various causes of lag in that system, and also smoothing would also generate a bit more lag. But as unix-guy suggests, it probably won't be an issue for most.
 
I think I'll have to retrain myself and set myself and the unit to full on for most situations. Just select the wah using scenes like Leon does in Pedal Applications . Set up one of the switches for level up and down if I need more.

Huge thanks for all the input, guys!
 
Read my first post...

Only exp 2 ports, want to use extra buttons so only one left for a pedal. MIDI both occupied too. Biggest Fractal dissapointment ever when I looked at the back and only saw 2 exp ports... First world problem.

https://piratemidi.com/pages/bridge-6 !!!!
Flexiports!!! WANT!!! NEED!!!
 
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