PRX612M and the saga of my tormented mind...

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youngmic

Inspired
I'm currently leaning toward returning the JBL's. But I have to say that it's nerve racking. I need a FRFR solution but am worried that I'll not be happy with these long term. I suspect they have poor resale value as well. But I appear to have exhausted the options in this price range.

I know there's no consensus, but here's a few questions that might help me decide:

Am I splitting hairs in this price range? Are all of the options equally deficient in one way or another? Or is there truly a standout option that is going to lessen the effort around tweaking and arriving at a good sound?

Can someone try to quantify for me the differences that I will experience with a $3000 grade solution? What will be the perceptual improvements? What will be the improvements in setup/tweaking?

Does anyone know a good OCD therapist?

All difficult questions, I know. But I'm desperate. Time...running...out......must........decide. : )

EDIT: And another thought/question:

Seems like a pair in stereo sufficiently apart from one another decreases the "in your face" quality of the sound and adds ambience. Is this just me or do some of you have the same experience? Or is this just a matter of more tweaking to smooth out a single speaker?

This is yet another complexity in considering the right solution. Getting enough stage real estate to effectively spread the JBL's (or anything similar in size) will be an ongoing problem. A smaller coaxial really look attractive in this regard. Maybe I should look back at the 8ma's.

Help.

ANOTHER EDIT: The fact that so few of you have chosen the JBL is also cause to doubt my choice. Not much of a chorus there. I wish I could say that I've discovered something that many have missed....but somehow I don't think this is the case.
 
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I don't think you are going to get a chorus of posts reassuring you that the PRX612Ms are an outstanding choice. There have been a few posts from happy owners, but for speakers in that price range you are going to get similar design compromises, as it is a very price sensitive niche. The K12s are a newer design that competes directly with the JBLs and generally people seem to like them better, but it's purely a matter of personal preference. Since you seem unsure about your choice, perhaps you should return the JBLs before the clock runs out and take some more time to decide.

One thing you might consider is buying one higher-quality powered cab rather than two of lesser quality.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read scotts's post on how to audition speakers.
 
Thanks LMO. You're right, of course. And guess where Scotts' posted the advice about auditioning speakers? In a thread I started about auditioning the QSC, Mackie, JBL, and Yamaha's. Ah well...back to work. : )
 
youngmic said:
Am I splitting hairs in this price range? Are all of the options equally deficient in one way or another? Or is there truly a standout option that is going to lessen the effort around tweaking and arriving at a good sound?
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There's the law of diminishing returns. Then there's the law of no returns at all. At some point, you have to stop reading opinions and reviews, looking for that magical bit of information that will decide it for you, because there's no such piece. Look at all the varying opinions here. Johnny loves A. Jimmy loves B. Jerry Loves C, hates B, and thinks he could live with A. Jake hates them all and wonders why someone doesn't just go and invent Q so he can buy it.

When you reach the point that your head is spinning from all the input, it's time to shut off the information firehose, and just go and audition whatever you can find in your price range. Listen to whatever you can, and let your ears decide what they like best. If you hear something that sounds noticeably better to you, that's what you should run with. If nothing stands out as an improvement over what you've got, then save yourself some money and stick with what you've got. If you're worried that your ears aren't good enough to make a good choice, then don't choose something new — if your ears get more sophisticated later on, you'll want to make a choice then, based on your "new" ears, not based on today's ears.


youngmic said:
Does anyone know a good OCD therapist?
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I recommend Dr. Forget-About-What-Everyone-Else-Says. He works wonders. :)


youngmic said:
Getting enough stage real estate to effectively spread the JBL's (or anything similar in size) will be an ongoing problem.
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Finding a venue that lets you run stereo in the first place will be an even bigger problem. :lol
 
Rex said:
When you reach the point that your head is spinning from all the input, it's time to shut off the information firehose, and just go and audition whatever you can find in your price range.
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+1
 
I have two words for you that may help you decide... Coaxial design! I would at least listen to a speaker that has this type of design, for me it made a difference in the type of speaker I wanted.
 
(youngmic) Am I splitting hairs in this price range? Are all of the options equally deficient in one way or another? Or is there truly a standout option that is going to lessen the effort around tweaking and arriving at a good sound?
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If you are interested I have a pair of non-powered Turbosound TXD-121s I will sell you. These were my first Turbosound cabinets. They sound very good to me. They are nowhere near the level of Jay's speaker (but we've beaten that to death in the other post haven't we)? I replaced these only because I got such a great deal on the used TCS-59s.

Using these cabinets would do two things for you:
1 - To my ears the TXD-121 is a cut above your JBL and the K12. You should be able to gig with the TXD for as long as you like and then slowly make the transition to a high end solution.
2 - If you end up not completely satisfied with the TXD then you will know where you stand with regard to the mid level market. Since you will be buying them used you will be able to get most if not all your money out of them if you decide to sell them.

If you want them I will sell the pair to you for $800 + shipping. That is a reasonable used price.

Just an idea. Let me know.
 
After trying several FRFR solutions, including the PRX612M that I ended up returning, I wondered if FRFR was personally right for me. So I then took my Axe-Fx over to my little brother's house. He owns a Carvin Legacy head and Legacy 4x12 cab with V30s. I figured this would be a decent test of how the Axe sounds through the fx loop, into the tube power amp of the Carvin, and out to real guitar cabs. I turned off cab modeling and kept power amp modeling on in the axe and messed around with a few presets.

This was what I was missing. It sounded great, in my face and rough around the edges. I found that FRFR was too refined for what I wanted and needed to hear from it.

So, I'm onto power amps and cabs and have been pretty satisfied. Everyone has their own personal tastes and not one way is better than the other. I'm wondering if this option might be what you need to pursue.
 
OK, I finally followed Scotts' advice and listened to music through the JBL's. Yes this is the first time I've listened to music through them. Yes, that was a mistake. I chose two of my favorite CD's - Alison Kraus and Union Station, So Long So Wrong, and The Pat Metheny Group, The Road to You. I know these CD's very well and am very familiar with the tone of instruments and voices. I also used them to select my home theater speakers - Paradigms. I started by hooking up an old CD player to one JBL. Aweful. Strong over-emphasized mids - 1K no less. But I used an old funky cable. OK. Hooked a pair up to the MOTU 896 and played the CD with iTunes through my Event PS8's. Ah, that's better. Metheny's strong mids now sounded vocal and balanced. Let's try the JBL again - this time both. No better. Metheny's guitar tone is so over emphasized it sounds like it's about to clip. Kraus voice is harsh and the acoustic guitars sound unnatural. No transparency.

The Events sounded balanced and transparent - not undetectable - but easy to forget and let the sound field take over. (Sorry if I'm using inappropriate terminology. I'm not a sound engineer). Instruments and voices sounded natural and balanced across all frequencies. No over emphasis.

The JBL's sounded nasal and rendered a harsh, almost metallic tone to everything. They were far from transparent. I used an EQ to tweak them out of curiosity. I had to pull 1k down between 3 and 6db to offset the mid-range emphasis. I was surprised.

This may be an unfair comparison, but I would think that they would be closer to flat than this. I also may be getting this completely wrong - remember, I'm no pro. But since I don't have a pro sitting next to me, I have to go with my ears. : )

The JBL's are going back. But what to do? My original auditions stand. I actually like the guitar tone better through the JBL's than the K12 and the Yamaha. I'm definitely going to have to hear a Verve 12. But we'll see. One thing's for sure: I will be taking CD's with me this time.

All in all, I was surprised at how bad the JBL's sounded to me after liking them so much in the store. But this does fit with the issues I had in a live setting. What I heard in the music was what I heard playing them with the band. Very interesting. I'll have to go back and listen to all these options with CD's now.

Thanks for all your comments. They're helpful. I'd love to hear your reactions to this post as well.

Mike
 
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