Personal Mini-FRFR Monitor - situation, thoughts, questions

Scott Peterson

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Vendor
I've used my QSC for a long time; and it's been great. Last year I had a TC Helicon VSM-200p for smaller quieter stuff and it worked fine... but the gig I bought it for went south and I sold it. My church gigs are all IEM; but this band does not use IEM and these club gigs are not setup for using IEM's.

Now I've had two shows in a row where I've been playing acoustic with the Axe-FX and going straight to FOH... and I can't hear myself at all. The problem is that with these house systems, you get one monitor mix for everyone. And you get vocals in the monitor mix... period. So I've done two shows in a row (last night was not on purpose at all!) where I had absolutely no monitor on myself. It's frustrating and impossible to deal with. I now COMPLETELY understand how vocalists go out of key and all over the place when their monitors (IEMs) fail and they have to perform 'blind' (without monitors).

This band lineup is drums, bass, two acoustic guitars (me and another), keys, cello and violin. Two vocalists. It's a hip groove project with harmonies and strong arrangements. I need the Axe-FX to do certain effects that the material requires (ie. wah on acoustic guitar... is exceptionally cool and utterly important to 3 songs in the set).

So we get to this stage, in a club I have not played in a number of years (like... 11 years). And the stage is TIGHT with this big a lineup. NO room for the QSC. Sound check is minus keys and bass and one vocal (scheduling issues) and I can hear myself a little from the side fill monitor. Figure, well, I'll be okay.

NOT so.

Ugg. The gig prior to this was even tighter and we needed my QSC for vocal monitor far removed from where I was.

So I've done two shows now clamming all over the place because I cannot hear myself at all once we get rolling. I have some solos... and man, playing solos that you simply cannot hear youself playing till you listen back to the board recording the next day is NOT ideal.

So I've decided that I have to act quickly and get one of these little personal monitors. They are designed for vocals only really; they are simply modern updates of the cursed "Hot Spot" monitors (uhhh, yea, I've used those in the past.... ugg).

Does anyone have any experience with the Mackie SRM-150? I just ordered one to try it and if it sucks, I'll be returning it for another TC Helicon VSM300.

Just wanted to see if any other FRFR folks out there make due with this?
 
Little post edit after some thought...

I went ahead and tried to cancel the Mackie and just go with what I know (TC Helicon) but they had already shipped. So I just ordered the TC Helicon too and will RA the Mackie.

I read report after report of the Mackie's just shutting down on the gig all over the place. I can't have that.

What cha' gonna do?
 
why couldnt you use iems, and do a split off the snake, get a band mix and then yourself? I'm preparing to gig without my 4x12's totally direct and am trying to think of all the possiblities so i have my bases covered. But we have our own p.a. so i know i can get a decent mix.
 
dpeterson said:
why couldnt you use iems, and do a split off the snake, get a band mix and then yourself? I'm preparing to gig without my 4x12's totally direct and am trying to think of all the possiblities so i have my bases covered. But we have our own p.a. so i know i can get a decent mix.
Click to expand...

My issue with IEM's the way you are indicating is that I'd have no way to control the volume of them. I don't carry a mini mixer or headphone amp. I 'could' have split off the monitor feed to a DI into my head... but blown eardrums and/or IEM's isn't gonna help! :D

If he was good with it, had a way for me to control the volume and I had the time to do it, then I would/should have done it.

Instead, I sound checked and thought I'd be okay. I wasn't.

For me, these little mini monitors will work. That way no matter what sort of situation, I have the QSC or the mini-monitor depending on the stage size and setup. I just need some reference on-stage or I can't do my job. Hitting with rock bands, the QSC was never a problem. In these sorts of larger ensemble playing situations, it becomes a VERY B-I-G problem (bad pun!). :D
 
Scott,

You could easily go with the IEM's with just a small digital mixer or audio interface ? $500 gets you a high quality (and compact) - Audio Interface w/ stand alone Multi-bus mixer, on board effects and MIDI interface all in one unit.

Good Luck with your search / choices. I know you'll do well.

cheers,
 
strato62 said:
Scott, how about Traynor's K1/K2/K4 series ?

Are these too big for your requirements ?
Click to expand...

Too much $$$ and weight.

The VSM-300 is like 6lbs and just dinky.
 
scott - try the FBT Verve 8ma - if the 12ma is any indication it could be a great solution for tight situations.
 
You may not want to spend $700 for the verve and carry 24 lbs... but...
FBT Jolly-5Ba 2 way powered speaker or the 8Ba.. check out RMC Audio
 
hippietim said:
scott - try the FBT Verve 8ma - if the 12ma is any indication it could be a great solution for tight situations.
Click to expand...

I'd be very inclined to agree, but the price tag is too steep for me right now.
 
Scott Peterson said:
dpeterson said:
why couldnt you use iems, and do a split off the snake, get a band mix and then yourself? I'm preparing to gig without my 4x12's totally direct and am trying to think of all the possiblities so i have my bases covered. But we have our own p.a. so i know i can get a decent mix.
Click to expand...

My issue with IEM's the way you are indicating is that I'd have no way to control the volume of them. I don't carry a mini mixer or headphone amp. I 'could' have split off the monitor feed to a DI into my head... but blown eardrums and/or IEM's isn't gonna help! :D

If he was good with it, had a way for me to control the volume and I had the time to do it, then I would/should have done it.

Instead, I sound checked and thought I'd be okay. I wasn't.

For me, these little mini monitors will work. That way no matter what sort of situation, I have the QSC or the mini-monitor depending on the stage size and setup. I just need some reference on-stage or I can't do my job. Hitting with rock bands, the QSC was never a problem. In these sorts of larger ensemble playing situations, it becomes a VERY B-I-G problem (bad pun!). :D
Click to expand...

hmm.. well the shure psm200's have 2 inputs that you can mix at the transmitter, and the new carvins have the ability to send 2 mono signals to the reciever (beltpack), and you can mix on the pack. I've used the shures before and wanted a stereo mix, so i think i'm going to nab the new carvins and see how they work out. they also use AA batteries :)
 
Scott Peterson said:
hippietim said:
scott - try the FBT Verve 8ma - if the 12ma is any indication it could be a great solution for tight situations.
Click to expand...

I'd be very inclined to agree, but the price tag is too steep for me right now.
Click to expand...
If I had the extra $$, I buy you one myself. You'd be really happy at 10.5 x 10.5 x 14
 
Scott Peterson said:
hippietim said:
scott - try the FBT Verve 8ma - if the 12ma is any indication it could be a great solution for tight situations.
Click to expand...

I'd be very inclined to agree, but the price tag is too steep for me right now.
Click to expand...

Just FYI - if RMC Audio applies the same discount rate to the 8ma that they did for the 12ma then the 8ma would come in at right around $600 - not cheap but still pretty reasonable for something that isn't made in China.
 
I don't own an Axe FX yet, but I'm getting very close to pulling the trigger on one. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do a monitor situation as well (as soon as I do, the Axe FX will become a reality). I just had a thought about IEM's. Does the Axe FX have a way to send a mono signal to a monitor and a stereo signal to the board at the same time? If it does, couldn't you just send a mono out to a stereo input (the left) on a headphone amp, then run your monitor mix from the board into the other input (the right). Mix as desired. That'd put you in your left ear and the rest of the band in your right ear and still allow you to control the volumes on both while still pumping a nice stereo mix to the FOH.

Sure, hearing your tone coming into your head mono isn't going to sound the same, but who cares? The crowd doesn't hear your monitor tone and you'd be in complete control of how much "you" would be in your mix.

There are probably easier ways to accomplish this...
 
Sidivan said:
I don't own an Axe FX yet, but I'm getting very close to pulling the trigger on one. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do a monitor situation as well (as soon as I do, the Axe FX will become a reality). I just had a thought about IEM's. Does the Axe FX have a way to send a mono signal to a monitor and a stereo signal to the board at the same time? If it does, couldn't you just send a mono out to a stereo input (the left) on a headphone amp, then run your monitor mix from the board into the other input (the right). Mix as desired. That'd put you in your left ear and the rest of the band in your right ear and still allow you to control the volumes on both while still pumping a nice stereo mix to the FOH.

Sure, hearing your tone coming into your head mono isn't going to sound the same, but who cares? The crowd doesn't hear your monitor tone and you'd be in complete control of how much "you" would be in your mix.

There are probably easier ways to accomplish this...
Click to expand...

I use IEM's for Church. You can do what you are saying; but why not just use a mini-format mixer and just mix things/pan things anyway you want from that?

I am fine with using IEM's for Church; but the (other) group(s) I play in is very dependent on interactive playing on stage outside of.

I've already ordered the Mackie and the TC Helicon; so I'll give them a rip at rehearsal. If it's not flying (and it very well might not) then I'll look into some sort of IEM setup that I can carry.

To do it right, I need a Mini-mixer and a IEM transmitter. At Church we go hardwire into a HearBus system. Live outside of that situation, I'd have to carry my own solution.

After reading the responses here and doing the research, the Carvin units look great but if you read carefully you'll see that those are rebranded OSP Audio (I think that's the company) which is simply a Chinese made solution. There are reports of them just dying on the gig scattered about the web. Not cool.

The Shure units that seem the standard for lower-end working musician prices ranges from $400 and up based on what system you order. I have the plugs, though I lost one of my custom fit ear buds a while back (the left one that I prefer to use) so I have to go out and get refit for that. Time is money. We are on our regional mini-tour now (though I'm not on the road) building up to a DVD shoot for release this coming Holiday season.

So I'm in a bit of a spot. Small stages mean I can't use the QSC, it's just too big. Of the coming shows, about 1/2 of them have smallish stages that I can't use this thing on. With the QSC, I am good. I'll try the mini-monitor thing on a mic stand for rehearsal at volume to see how that flies this coming week. My next show is April 23 so I have 12 days as I type this. I can't get a decent IEM wireless system together because of money and time RIGHT now. Though I admit I should have thought this through better.

In hindsight, I should have done a quality wireless IEM setup from the word go on this project.

But, we'll see how it goes. I'll see what I can do to force the QSC into these shows if there is ANY way possible. That solves the entire issue without compromise. But we'll see.

Thanks for the input guys and if you have more, share it.
 
Here is my current setup:

Axefx-rig.jpg


The left-side unit is the Shure P4M 4 channel mixer and feeds the 4 channels + aux-in signals to the PSM400 IEM transmitter.
Axe output 2 L&R goes into the L&R aux-in's on the back of the mixer--I control the overall volume with the Axe output 2 control knob.
Axe output 1 goes straight to the board.

If I'm using the FRFR's, I unplug the cables to the aux-in's and plug in the FRFR cables--quick and easy.

My mic goes into mixer input 1 and passes out the back to the snake.
The monitor mix from the board goes into mixer input 2 and out the back if necessary.

With this setup, I can dial in as much of MY guitar and My vocal as I need without affecting the signal to the board, and I can mix in as much "overall monitor" mix as I need too--all without depending on the sound guy...which is a BONUS in my book.
 
Cool rig. That indeed is the perfect solution.

Nice preset showing there too. Looks strangely... familar. ;) :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom