Patches Leveled for Out2---Not Leveled for Out1

RossE

RossE

Inspired
Axe II v7 fw
Out1 mono to FOH
Out2 Stereo to IEM
USB is only passing midi data. The audio monitoring via ASIO is disabled.
All patches have FXL block at end of chain, not connected to OUT and with FXL level turned all the way down to -80.00
All patches are equal in level to the ear when monitoring Out2.
Same patch levels are 'all over the place uneven' when monitoring Out1. Softest to loudest differ by 10-15db


According to the manual this routing is explained as a useful feature of the FXL block and Out2.
Anyone ever come across this problem before? Suggestions?

Thanks..........................
 
I have Copy R -> L set for Out1. I believe that is the recommended setting per the manual.
 
Chris,

Not following what you mean by the 'Out1 mono method'. The manual shows 3 ways, depending on your particular configuration needs.

Half-Stereo: By leaving the Axe-Fx II in stereo and connecting only the left main output to a mono input, you get “half-stereo.” This works fine, with the caveat that the right channel will not be heard! Panning will impart volume changes, and the Ping-Pong Delay and other wide effects will need adjustment to be heard somewhat as intended. Tone may also change if panned cabs or amps have been used.
Summed Mono: By choosing “SUM L+R” mode for either OUTPUT 1 or OUTPUT 2, the two channels are added together and the resulting signal produced at both LEFT and RIGHT jacks. This has the advantage of including all sounds intended for both stereo channels, but short delay or phase differences between channels can result in strange artifacts or even total cancellation. This setting is best when you’re confident that the presets you’ll be playing have been designed for, or tested, in a SUMMED MONO listening environment.
Dual Mono: By choosing “COPY L>R” mode for either OUTPUT 1 or OUTPUT 2, you get a dual mono signal. The sound will be identical to that of half-stereo, with the same limitations, except it will be produced at both the left and right jacks. Use this setting when you want two mono outputs without the problems typically caused by summing L+R.
Mono and Stereo at Once — New for the Axe-Fx II is the ability to operate OUT2 as a summed MONO copy of the stereo OUT1 signal (or vice versa). Select COPY OUT1>OUT2, then choose the output mode for each pair of jacks that best suits your needs.

One thing I did not mention in my original post is that all my patches have been rebuilt as mono.

If you see that I'm doing something stupid, please just bust my chops and be done with it. Thanks.....
 
Out1 L->R
Out2 Stereo

I know having Out2 set to stereo seems useless if all my patches are mono, but I swear I can hear a slight difference.
 
When you say "monitoring out1" in your first post, do you mean hearing it though the FOH?

Can you test output 1 connected to your IEM system instead of output 2? Is it still unbalanced in the IEMs with out1?

What is the FX loop block for in your presets? It usually overrides the Cooy Out 1 to Out 2 setting. Have you tried any presets with the FX loop block deleted?
 
I duplicated venue config at home with a mixer. Out1 L->R to a mixer channel 1 and Out2 Stereo mixer channel 2. Mixer output to a Behringer HP amp to cans.
So when I say monitor, it was all done with cans. Out2 mixer channel 2 patch levels were even. Out1 mixer channel 1 same patches were uneven.

Copy Out1 to Out2 is set to off, so the FXL blocks were controlling signal to Out2. In that config, no sound at Out2 when no FXL block.....I know because I
forgot the FXL block on a patch I was tweaking.
 
RossE said:
Out1 L->R
Out2 Stereo
Click to expand...
I'm thinking phase cancellation is once again rearing its ugly head. Try setting both outputs the same way, and see if they don't match each other.


RossE said:
I know having Out2 set to stereo seems useless if all my patches are mono, but I swear I can hear a slight difference.
Click to expand...
If you can hear a difference in stereo, then some of your patches aren't truly mono. :)
 
Rex said:
I'm thinking phase cancellation is once again rearing its ugly head.
Click to expand...

if he's using Copy L>R, there should be no phase cancellation if he's using only 1 cable/output side, right? that was my first guess, but since it's not L+R, L>R won't phase cancel.

still, try setting Out1 to stereo anyway, see if it helps.

you say your FX Loop isn't connected to Out, so that means it's not in the last column? is it on a different row connected diagonally?

could you post the preset or at least a photo or 2 that shows the entire layout?
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
if he's using Copy L>R, there should be no phase cancellation if he's using only 1 cable/output side, right? that was my first guess, but since it's not L+R, L>R won't phase cancel.
Click to expand...
Not at the output, but maybe somewhere in the chain. It's hard to know without the preset in front of you, but radical differences between 1 and 2 point to something being different, and the only difference called out so far is the differently-configured outputs. The fact that RossE hears a difference means that theere's probably some stereo floating around in his mono presets. Setting them identical will at least remove the output-configuration variable.

+1 on your request for the patch.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for taking the time to look at this problem with me gents. FYI.....I set the FXL blocks up this way based on these two statements from the wiki.
1) The Level parameter in the FXL block affects the signal flow to the block after the FXL block, not the signal to Out2.
2) When connecting FXL to the end of the grid, turn down its Level to prevent passing through signal to OUT1.

Of the patches that have uneven levels via Out1, this is the one with the lowest perceived level
View attachment mSmooth.syx
and this is the one with the highest perceived level.
View attachment TrainLTD.syx

Reminder, these are v7 fw patches.
 
at a quick glance (i have to go do a photoshoot), the Level knob in the Layout menu (last page) has a level of -12db in the Train preset and +7.44 in the mSmooth. intentional?

i think that will only affect the Out 1 volume, ignoring the FX loop.

i generally only use the Amp Level parameter to balance levels among my different presets.
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
at a quick glance (i have to go do a photoshoot), the Level knob in the Layout menu (last page) has a level of -12db in the Train preset and +7.44 in the mSmooth. intentional?

i think that will only affect the Out 1 volume, ignoring the FX loop.
Click to expand...
That's it. You're using patch-leveling parameters that only affect one of the outputs. Nevermind about phase cancellation. :)
 
Well paralyze my pick fingers!.......that's it!
Some of my presets use a combination of level adjustment in the amp block and at the main output.
The main output only affects Out1. The level adjustments made at the main output don't ever make it to
Out2 because the FXL redirect is before the main output in the chain.

So the answers is......When using Out1 and Out2 via FXL concurrently, make all level changes within blocks prior to the FXL block. Do not make level adjustments using the patch main out slider. Patch main out slider adjustments will not be applied to Out2.

Common sense now that I see the issue, but still might make a good Tip/Trick comment to the FXL Block section of the wiki/manual.

Thanks Chris and Rex.
 
you are using the FX Loop to give you a 2nd output for your IEM. could you instead just use Copy Out 1 to Out 2, which gives you Output 2 and its own volume for IEMs, and then you don't need to use an FX loop?
 
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