Output level knob confusion?

[GazzaBloom]

i'm confused, in the manual it is advised to set the output level knobs to Maximum, but Cliff has made comments that it should be set at noon:

Manual:

To operate with unity gain, set the Output Level knobs to maximum. If you then route shunts from the input to the output you will get out exactly what you put in. (If you’re not using the Axe-Fx in the loop of a tube amp, unity gain is likely not relevant.)
If levels result in clipping of attached equipment, turn down the front panel knobs. At the minimum setting, volume is reduced but may not be silent.

Cliff's comments:

Let me clarify, you shouldn't NEED to turn the output level all the way up and, in general, if you do, then your gain staging is probably suboptimal.

Unity gain mode is a special mode designed for use with the 4CM. When you turn the output levels all the way up whatever you put in you get out (assuming all unity-gain blocks in the chain). If you have an amp block in the chain then you have tons of gain and therefore no longer have unity gain.

Optimal gain staging would be with the level knob around noon. Higher than this and you risk clipping the inputs of the downstream device. With the level knob at full the Axe-Fx II will probably incinerate a Soundblaster or other low-cost stuff. The max level out of the Axe-Fx II is +20 dBu. Most pro gear can easily handle that but lots of gear cannot and the trend in newer gear is towards lower and lower maximum input levels (due to single-ended designs and low-voltage/low-power constraints). In the old days, +20 dBu was routine. Everything could put out and handle +20. Not so much anymore.

For a Strat, near 100% on the input level is not unusual. I run my Strat around there. It has vintage-type pickups.

Which is correct? Output at maximum if using 4CM only and noon when using the Axes inbuilt amp blocks?

Gazza

 

[chris]

i'm confused, in the manual it is advised to set the output level knobs to Maximum, but Cliff has made comments that it should be set at noon:

Manual:

To operate with unity gain, set the Output Level knobs to maximum.

are you trying to operate with unity gain?

 

[zerolight]

Chris is subtly saying that the manual doesn't say you should operate at unity gain. It merely tells you how you can do that. It doesn't actually recommend anything.

 

[symphx]

I put near 9 oclock or 10 at most. anything higher blows up my ears, and I would have to greatly turn down my frfr speakers. I dont know if it would make a difference turning it to noon and nearly turning the volume off on my frfr. So I guess the question is , is noon really the secret sauce, or it doesnt really matter? I find it hard to believe turning up the axe since its digital and not tubes would make a difference?

 

[chris]

Chris is subtly saying that the manual doesn't say you should operate at unity gain.

i'm actually really asking if he's trying to operate at unity gain, since he doesn't tell us what he's trying to do. he states 2 truths and asks which is correct.

 

[Rex]

The answer can be pulled from the quotes you posted:

To operate with unity gain, set the Output Level knobs to maximum.

Unity gain mode is a special mode designed for use with the 4CM. When you turn the output levels all the way up whatever you put in you get out (assuming all unity-gain blocks in the chain). If you have an amp block in the chain then you have tons of gain and therefore no longer have unity gain.

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Which is correct? Output at maximum if using 4CM only and noon when using the Axes inbuilt amp blocks?

Yes. That whole sentence is correct.


Note: If you're using 4CM but some of your presets use the Axe's built-in amp sims instead of your amp's preamp, then set it up for unity gain and turn the level on your amp sim way the heck down.

 

[GazzaBloom]

Thanks, I guess I'm just looking for best settings for signal to noise and settings that will not fry the inputs of any gear I connect to.

 

[Jeff B]

I'm also curious on this topic. I'm running the AFX to a Matrix 1000 amp. I generally would always have my AFX output knobs turned fully clockwise and would adjust volume via the Matrix A/B channels. However, I have had people comment on how I should never have my AFX output cranked and also, should only have it around noon or so. I guess I'm confused as to what is truly correct as I'm also looking for the best S/N ratio while not causing potential damage to the Matrix, etc.

If I recall, there used to be a video or a link that Matrix put out regarding this, but I can't find it any longer. I will be following this thread and hopefully will find the secret of what is correct for optimum setting of the AFX.

 

[Stratman68]

I'm also curious on this topic. I'm running the AFX to a Matrix 1000 amp. I generally would always have my AFX output knobs turned fully clockwise and would adjust volume via the Matrix A/B channels. However, I have had people comment on how I should never have my AFX output cranked and also, should only have it around noon or so. I guess I'm confused as to what is truly correct as I'm also looking for the best S/N ratio while not causing potential damage to the Matrix, etc.

If I recall, there used to be a video or a link that Matrix put out regarding this, but I can't find it any longer. I will be following this thread and hopefully will find the secret of what is correct for optimum setting of the AFX.

Well, Cliff just stated what's correct. So Noon for you.

 

[Rex]

Folks are overthinking this.

If you use the Axe's amp sims, set the output knobs around noon. That gives you a strong signal, with some room to dial up or down if you need to. As Cliff pointed out, running the outputs all the way up in that situation could clip the inputs of some types/brands of downstream equipment. That's "clipping," not "destroying." Big difference. Clipping doesn't sound good.

If you use 4CM, turn the output knobs all the way up. That gives you unity gain when you're not using the Axe's amp sims, and that means your amp's level controls will behave the way you expect them to behave.

 

[chris]

I start my out knob around 9 o clock for use with amp sims/full range. The noise floor of the axe is so quiet, you honestly won't have any issue. I may turn up during the gig depending on what's going on.

Don't confuse that though with the guitar noise when using high gain settings. That is not the same as the Axe noise floor and is not affected by the S-N ratio discussed here.