Ok wish me luck last chance for my CLR today with the full band

GreatGreen said:
I'll say this as an owner of a CLR who has played in multiple live settings alongside other guitar players using traditional amp/cab rigs.

If the CLR sounds thin, it's not the speaker. It's the patch.
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I was thinking the same thing. Not to disparage the OP, but 'thin' is not at all how I'd describe what's coming out of the CLR's I own.

Either way, he found it didn't work for him and the band, so no need to keep beating on this.
 
sprada said:
FWIW I ended up with this gig settings:

CLR with input level exactly at 12 o'clock
CLR output between 12 and 13 o'clock
AXE-FX output level usually at 12o'clock (sometimes a bit more)
Presets in the 0db mark using VU Meters (without boosts)

Works great.
Good luck.
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These are the settings I use as well.

In coming from a cab stood up as a backline to full range speaker with a HF driver pointed right at you, the highs can rip your face off.

I find the high end can be very harsh with FRFR vs. a guitar cab.

Try a high shelf roll off and keep lowering the knee until you like it. It can be really lower than you think depending on the amp.
 
barhrecords said:
I find the high end can be very harsh with FRFR vs. a guitar cab.
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^Exactly!! I was really surprised at how harsh, even shrill, the high end can be as the volume level increases with the CLRs. You think you've dialed them in at normal performance level and then if, for whatever reason you exceed that to any significant degree, the sound characteristics change in a bad way. All attributable to fletcher-munson I assume.

Whereas with a traditional cab, the harder you push it the characteristics change in a different (better) way. You get a rounder, squishy-er tone. When I used to play my Triaxis/2:90/Cab rig, I used to love it when we turned up loud, 'cause that's when the magic really happened between the 2:90 and the speaker cab. With FRFR, it's just the opposite, I'm always trying to keep our stage volume down, so I keep my CLRs in their sweet spot.

Not sure if that makes any sense.
 
mrstrat said:
^Exactly!! I was really surprised at how harsh, even shrill, the high end can be as the volume level increases with the CLRs. You think you've dialed them in at normal performance level and then if, for whatever reason you exceed that to any significant degree, the sound characteristics change in a bad way. All attributable to fletcher-munson I assume.

Whereas with a traditional cab, the harder you push it the characteristics change in a different (better) way. You get a rounder, squishy-er tone. When I used to play my Triaxis/2:90/Cab rig, I used to love it when we turned up loud, 'cause that's when the magic really happened between the 2:90 and the speaker cab. With FRFR, it's just the opposite, I'm always trying to keep our stage volume down, so I keep my CLRs in their sweet spot.

Not sure if that makes any sense.
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Your ears will thank you though, and provide you the future ability to be able to hear and enjoy music, so there is an upside
 
Hpw can one CLR fight against a bigger 2x12 or 4x12?

My two stage monitors with 600w each can't do it. Physics says that the boxes are too small. Or something.
With one (or two) 1x12 monitor and a Yamaha DSR15, another story is told. Kicks like a 4x12 with ease. But the weight then...

If the highs gets harder at high volume you allways have the global eq.....
 
Kriig said:
Hpw can one CLR fight against a bigger 2x12 or 4x12?

My two stage monitors with 600w each can't do it. Physics says that the boxes are too small.
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I mainly use one CLR for just the Axe, and then a normal Mackie wedge for everything else plus some guitar. It's sounds huge. If I wanted, I could drown out the entire rest of the band just from my monitor mix, including the other guy who is running two 2x12s with two amps. Physics be damned. It works.

But the real question here is: why do you even want to fight the other guitarist, stage volume-wise? Shouldn't a loud enough local mix be enough and let everyone else get you...and the other guy...in their monitors? Are people really trying to use the CLR as backline? Why?
 
if the problems are increasing as you turn the CLR up (shrill high end, etc), that's not the CLR, that's more than likely Fletcher Munson. If it had been dialed in a volume then it wouldn't be an issue at volume.

as for it competing with a 4x12, i haven't had to fight any....but it's always been plenty loud on any stage i've played on. and, as i've said many times, i know it sounds great and sounds exactly like what the audience is hearing, as opposed the "amazing" floor-coupled off axis" cab sound.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I mainly use one CLR for just the Axe, and then a normal Mackie wedge for everything else plus some guitar. It's sounds huge. If I wanted, I could drown out the entire rest of the band just from my monitor mix, including the other guy who is running two 2x12s with two amps. Physics be damned. It works.

But the real question here is: why do you even want to fight the other guitarist, stage volume-wise? Shouldn't a loud enough local mix be enough and let everyone else get you...and the other guy...in their monitors? Are people really trying to use the CLR as backline? Why?
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Because the guy who is the loudest gets the girls ? lol

In all seriousness, when I was young, I remember always wanting to blow other bands off the stage with volume. It was dumb, but its kind of how we thought. Same stuff as people used to do with car stereo's back in the day. Who's trunk could rattle enough sub bass to either make the car fall apart, or people to mess themselves. Didn't matter if it was a nice well reproduced bass note, we just wanted sheer watts, even through the crappiest subs possible.

Heck, I think there still is a bit of that "male-ness" going on to this day

Who can drive the ball further in golf, who's got the longer fishing boat, who has the largest caliber firearms etc.

Perhaps in an instinctual needs to be louder/faster/larger/etc than the other guy....
 
I'm guessing that you guys that are complaining about harsh highs are using the cab blocks with the stock settings? I have used tube amps, and real world cabs off and on for 15 years, out of my 25 years of playing guitar, and I gotta say, with the cab block at stock settings, FRFR does NOT work for me. I find I have to dial in the cab to feel right to me. I roll off the high's and lows, and add some room, otherwise it's still producing WAY more frequencies than a real cab does. I also prefer to hear it in stereo, with different cabs on each channel, but that's not always feasible for some setups. I also roll off the highs and lows in the amp block a little bit, and I try too keep my cab last, unless I have a delay that needs the full frequency to trail out properly.
 
BrainalLeakage said:
I'm guessing that you guys that are complaining about harsh highs are using the cab blocks with the stock settings? I have used tube amps, and real world cabs off and on for 15 years, out of my 25 years of playing guitar, and I gotta say, with the cab block at stock settings, FRFR does NOT work for me. I find I have to dial in the cab to feel right to me. I roll off the high's and lows, and add some room...
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That the IR is a key piece of the puzzle here is absolutely correct. If you're using IRs that were shot to sit in a recorded mix, you're probably going to have a bad time. There's two schools of thought here. 1. Tweak the IR, as you've said above. Or, 2. Find an IR that works right out of the box. I think you can make it work either way. I prefer method #2 just because it's a lot less tweaking.

The Fletcher-Munson comment is also dead on. For some reason, folks think you can dial in a good tone at home at low volumes and have it translate well to live/loud use. I've never found that to be the case with any amp or modeler. Dial it in LOUD. :)

I have used my two CLRs on big and small stages and have had zero problems keeping up with anything I need to keep up with. Easily competes with a 412. But again, why that kind of volume if you're going direct anyway? If the other guy is too loud on stage for your CLRs, then he's too freakin loud, period.
 
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