Need to improve my stage volume. Question regarding atomics

boltrecords

boltrecords

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right now im running my axe two with just one atomic active cab. the one cab doesnt really quite cut it on its own. i dont really need a ton of volume but the one speaker seems to get buried in th stage volume mix compared to the 4x12 on the other side of the stage.

my question is...if i added one atomic passive cab onto my active cab, would that help balance out the stage volume on my end? does it add to the overall volume when piggy backing the two together. or does the 50 watts just split between the two cabs and make each cab run lower?
im not running in stereo so i dont need the second power cab if the passive will work fine.
 
hmm, it's unclear to me from the specs if you run both the internal speaker and an external speaker if the ohm rating will drop to 4, or stay at 8 for each. probably stay at 8 for each, meaning you'll get 2 cabs running at 50 w, so it should definitely get louder.

right?
 
You will still have 50w of power. The only difference is that you'll be moving twice amount of air. So yes, adding another cab will increase your stage volume. Make sure the cabs are aiming at your ears. I can't remember your post and I'm on my iPod and can't see it now. So i don't recall if you are using cabinets or wedges.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
chrisallen8888 said:
hmm, it's unclear to me from the specs if you run both the internal speaker and an external speaker if the ohm rating will drop to 4, or stay at 8 for each. probably stay at 8 for each, meaning you'll get 2 cabs running at 50 w, so it should definitely get louder.

right?
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It will get louder, but both cabs will be getting 25w each, not 50w!

and to OP.. one 50w atomic is NOT loud enough for stage monitoring? Mine will blow me off the stage.. that's 50w TUBE power not SS. I could see that being the case if it was acting as a back line amp.

How are you listening to it? is it tilted up and pointing at your head or sat as backline and pointing at your knees? I have mine either angled up at me from floor or elevated on top of the amp rack - either way pointed UP at my head and ACROSS the stage. It's plenty loud..
 
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chrisallen8888 said:
do you know if adding an external cab will drop the ohm rating from 8 to 4? or will they both stay at 8?
Click to expand...
Good question... based on the specs on the Atomic site + plus the manual, there's not much to go on. Assuming that the second cab (passive 8-ohm) is [internally] wired in parallel with the main output, then the impedance would be cut to a nominal 4-Ohms. If wired in series, that would bump the impedance up to a nominal 16-Ohms.
Either way, with 2 speakers being driven, each is going to see 25w of the available 50w.

I'm guessing 4-Ohms. If that is the case, NEVER daisy chain a 3rd cabinet onto the 2nd passive cab. This will take the output impedance on the amp down to below 2-Ohms and that WILL FRY YOUR AMP!!
 
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It is not possible to wire speakers in separate cabinets in series with only two wires. The speakers will definitely be in parallel and each speaker will definitely be presented with 50W of power. If each speaker is 8 ohms the combined parallel impedance will be 4 ohms. This does not affect the power as it does in solid state amps. i.e. 100W @ 8 ohms and 200W @ 4 ohms. Not the case with tube amps.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
shotgunn said:
It is not possible to wire speakers in separate cabinets in series with only two wires.
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Uh? I beg to differ. Depends on how the first cabinet is wired. Any solo speaker in a passive cab should be wired +/- to the input jack. How that ties back to the first speaker is based on how the output jack of the first cab is wired internally and will determine whether both are considered wired in series/parallel. I agree that they would normally be wired in parallel.

shotgunn said:
The speakers will definitely be in parallel and each speaker will definitely be presented with 50W of power. If each speaker is 8 ohms the combined parallel impedance will be 4 ohms. This does not affect the power as it does in solid state amps. i.e. 100W @ 8 ohms and 200W @ 4 ohms. Not the case with tube amps.
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You are correct, however I think you have it backwards.
Tube amp output is constant at rated level e.g. 50w for the Atomic. Tube amps will use output transformers with secondary taps connected to an impedance switch allowing for the same power output when connected to 4, 8 or 16 ohm loads. There is no such switch on the Atomic 50w. This is not the case for SS amps, hence different output levels with different impedance.

If the speaker switch on the Atomic is acting as an impedance switch (not documented that I could find) and switching impedance to 4-Ohms, then 50w at 4-Ohms (vs 8-Ohms) is still 50w output, and would mean each speaker still sees 25w. 50w/2 = 25w.

If it was a solid-state amp, I agree, the output would increase (with speakers in parallel) and 50w @ 8-Ohms would produce 100w (or thereabouts) @ 4-Ohms. In this case, the speakers would see 50w each. 100w/2=50w.

Either way, with two speakers connected to an amp in parallel, each speakers sees 50% of rated power (assuming equal impedance on each speaker).
 
Anyway you slice it you can't wire speakers in two separate cabinets in series with only two conductors.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
shotgunn said:
Anyway you slice it you can't wire speakers in two separate cabinets in series with only two conductors.
Click to expand...
Yes you can:

Code: 
  |-------------Speaker_1-------------|
Amp                                  Speaker_2
  |-----------------------------------|

This just requires the extension connector in Speaker_1 to be wired for this purpose (easy to do). It can also be wired so that Speaker_1 will work normally if no extension is plugged in.

Two wires from Amp to Speaker_1 (one which just goes through the cab) and 2 wires from there to speaker_2.
 
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shotgunn said:
You will still have 50w of power. The only difference is that you'll be moving twice amount of air. So yes, adding another cab will increase your stage volume.
Click to expand...
Sorry, another clarification, shotgunn ...

Adding another speaker moves air over an area twice as big, but only half as much in each place. Overall, there's no difference except that you can spread the sound better, as you rightly say, by aiming speakers better at you ears, or around the stage.

(I'm sure a certain esteemed and departed forum member could explain this much better) :p
 
Keep it simple

Why not just get another ACTIVE Atomic wedge and call it a day??

I've been eyeballing the Atomic lineup, and personally, knowing that they're rated at 200W power handling, I'm more inclined to buy 2 passive wedges and run them through my Fryette 2/90/2 which has GOBS of headroom therefore not tainting the tone or quality of the signal whatsoever (relatively speaking) and therefore still be able to blast upwards of 100W per side. More than adequate.

However, this is my scenario not yours. In your shoes I'd opt to buy a second active wedge - or - conversely, sell what you've got, get a decent poweramp, and buy 2 passives.
 
When you add another speaker, you may or may not get increased power. It depends on whether there's any reserve current capacity in the power supply (the same goes for solid state amps), and how hard you're hitting the power amp. It also depends on whether the Atomic's Speaker switch is changing the amp's output impedence (adding speakers only changes the load impedence, not the output impedence).

I think your best bet is to contact Atomic and ask them directly.
 
Another thought: You might have an EQ problem rather than a volume problem. If you can EQ your stage signal for a little more punch, you might save yourself (and your bandmates) the pain of a volume war.
 
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I'd also have to think the one cabinet should have enough power. I have found at least a difference of a factor of 2, having the cabinet pointed right at me. Could that make a huge difference for you? If not, have you considered in-ear monitors?
 
I'm Using in ears so im not having a problem hearing them. I just can't keep up with the 4x12 on the other side of the stage for actual stage fill. A lot of places we play have high up mains so people close to the stage can't hear the mains. Therefore we turn up the stage volume a bit. But the atomic is so small and directional that it only fills part of the front of the stage. I thought maybe having two cabs aims at the front of the stage at different areas would help cover more area.
I don't need another active cab unless absolutely necessary.
This is really just an idea to help with stage fill. I just spent 1200 on ear buds so I dont want to blow another 800 on the active cab unless absolutely necessary.
If one passive cab will help this then great.
 
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I was also wondering if auditioning presets using two cabs would be a little more accurate than with just one. Sometimes its hard to get an accurate idea of what the low end will be like in a live setting while setting up a preset with only one atomic cab.
 
If funds allow why not invest in a second powered cab? I did and I'm glad that I made the decision as you get a fuller 'wall' of sound and, consequently, I feel that I can get a more accurate feeling for the patch characteristics at greater volume (referring to your point given above). I can still daisy chain passive Atomic cabs of these powered cabs if necessary but I can't see the need to be honest as I have 100W of power in the active Atomics and that's overkill for most of the venues in which I play.
 
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