My Fender, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Clips/Patches *Ver9.02*

Scott Peterson

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Vendor
***********NOTE*********** I've redone the three presets and attached them on Page 3 of this thread. Note the clips, screen caps and such here in this post are NOT of the new patches. I'll leave them for posterity sake though

Scott 02-15-2010
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some patches I use regularly. I'm attempting to share and show folks there isn't that much 'magic' or crazy stuff to do when doing patches on the Axe-FX. It's pretty straight forward. (Talking about the amp/cab/PEQ/Reverb for a straight ahead tone). All done using my 2004 Melancon Custom Artist "S". S/S/H (WCR SR/SR/Goodwood) pickups.

That said, I put a lot of effort into totally personalizing and customizing my presets for my own tastes and uses. These are NOT universal to everyone; just me sharing my way of creating and crafting tones that I use everyday and enjoy greatly. They put a smile on my face, and I hope you check them out and they put a smile on your face too.

I usually add a Parametric EQ (PEQ) after the cab, before other effects. IMHO, this simply creates a better sonic 'picture' and sounds better in the mix. Note I use the 'blocking' parameter, which is a roll-off and not a hard shelving roll-off. I use different settings for each (see each preset for details) but this is a good starting point for any PEQ used for this purpose.

PEQ.jpg


Axe-FX Preset Files:***SEE PAGE 3 for updated presets****

First up is my go-to clean sound (though it depends greatly on your playing dynamics) based off the Fender Deluxe type of sound I prefer most of the time.


(I'll show screen shots of the three pages of the amp settings for completeness and to give folks an idea of what I have everything set at)


I use the Tweed model and a Red Wire IR response. I am using the Tweed Deluxe Celestion Blue, Royer 121, CapEdge at 3" from the Red Wire "Big Box" collection. Nothing fancy, no custom mix, nothing to do once you drop it in the user slot in the Axe-FX.

Clip: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8693661

dlx1.jpg


dlx2.jpg


dlx3.jpg



Next up is the mighty Marshall JCM800 with a Red Wire Marshall 1960A Celestion G12M (Greenback), Royer 121, Cap Edge 2" Cabinet IR.

Clip: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8693662

JCM8001.jpg


JCM8002.jpg


JCM8003.jpg



And finally my favorite tone for rock, the Bogner Ecstasy Red channel preset. I use this with the stock "Cali412" cabinet IR (though I also use it with a Red Wire Orange412, V30, R121, Cap Edge 3" IR too).

Clip: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8693663

Bogner1.jpg


Bogner2.jpg


Bogner3.jpg
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

No doubt. I'm sure that took a ton of time... Thanks!
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Scott, they sound awesome. Great job.

I loaded them and it's amazing that I can use these as they are with my Atomics (I do select stock cab sims), just have to block lows in the PEQ at a higher point.

Using the Boost with the Fender gives so much more body to that tone.
And funny to see those extreme Mid/Treble/Presence settings on the JCM. :)
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

yek said:
Scott, they sound awesome. Great job.

I loaded them and it's amazing that I can use these as they are with my Atomics (I do select stock cab sims), just have to block lows in the PEQ at a higher point.

Using the Boost with the Fender gives so much more body to that tone.
And funny to see those extreme Mid/Treble/Presence settings on the JCM. :)
Click to expand...

If you've played them, that isn't 'extreme' at all, that's mostly how I set them up in the analog world.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Thanks for posting these Scott. I am digging your Bogner patch and will dial it in later today. Very thick and chunky like the real deal.

One thing I've learned in digital world that applies to DAW plug ins etc as well as with the Axefx is to not worry about turning knobs to "extreme" settings and just make adjustments based on what I am hearing. I don't worry if something is cranked or cut way back as long as it's what I'm after.

Thanks for that Bogner...it sounds yummy!! :D
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

guittarzzan said:
Thanks for posting these Scott. I am digging your Bogner patch and will dial it in later today. Very thick and chunky like the real deal.

One thing I've learned in digital world that applies to DAW plug ins etc as well as with the Axefx is to not worry about turning knobs to "extreme" settings and just make adjustments based on what I am hearing. I don't worry if something is cranked or cut way back as long as it's what I'm after.

Thanks for that Bogner...it sounds yummy!! :D
Click to expand...

Exactly right. I close my eyes a lot when I'm dialing tones and just use - and trust - my ears. If it sounds good, it is good. Nothing more to it.

When you hear that tone sit in the mix in a band setting too; it's exactly the same 'gut' feeling I used to have when I played my Shiva and Ecstasy in 2000-2004 life over hundreds of shows. The fact that I've tweaked this to how I want it to sound, easily I might add, is satisfying in a way that is hard to communicate without sounding like I'm hyping it. :D The stock Cali412 version you hear here is better stand alone than the Red Wire, but the Red Wire version sits in the mix perfectly. Alone the Red Wire doesn't have the cabinet resonance as much as the stock Cali412 with no mic. Horses for courses.

I feel like an evil amp scientist sometimes, and when you get it right (which I've got close to 25 presets now available to myself that I've dialed to the nth degree for my preferences) you feel like the Cheshire cat. Complete with an evil smile to go along with it.

Having tried out literally hundreds of custom cab IR mixes and thousands of IR's now; it is nice to know what I like and don't like and what works and doesn't work live for real in the analog world we use after crafting these tones in the digital realm with the Axe-FX.

I love being able to share it with everyone that cares to check it out so they can build upon what I've ended up with and use to create their own 'thing' with the box.

I have to thank the Cardinal of Crunk (I think that's his name here) for sharing his Bogner presets; I studied his approach and learned a lot from it post Version 9.0. Once I understood how he approached it, I formed my own approach that worked for me. He shared, I share, we all share. It's win/win/win.

I like Bogner's, I've owned Bogners and like some guys chase MarkIV tones; the Ecstasy/Shiva thing is my preferred high gain thing.

Perhaps I'll share my Cornford, Soldano, CAE, and Marshall JCM900 sometime too. Other killer flavors I sometimes use too.

It's like loving ice cream and owning a premium ice cream shop. No matter what flavor you choose, you can't lose. :D
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Scott,

Quick question. You said you use the stock Cali 4x12 and sometimes the RW Orange with the Bogner Preset and that the stock Cali is better standalone but the RW sits perfectly in the mix. Does this mean that when you're playing alone you use the stock cab and when in a band setting you switch to the RW? I just wasn't clear on if you perceived the RW to sit better in the mix.

I totally agree on the 'cab resonance' point you made. I've found that as well.

-Chris
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

odsska said:
Scott,

Quick question. You said you use the stock Cali 4x12 and sometimes the RW Orange with the Bogner Preset and that the stock Cali is better standalone but the RW sits perfectly in the mix. Does this mean that when you're playing alone you use the stock cab and when in a band setting you switch to the RW? I just wasn't clear on if you perceived the RW to sit better in the mix.

I totally agree on the 'cab resonance' point you made. I've found that as well.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Basically, the stock cab sounds more 'impressive' in a context like the way it is presented here - solo, just by itself - than the Red Wire does IMHO. In the mix, the difference shifts; the same thing that makes the stock cab so "BOOM" here gets lost in the mix and I have to raise the high pass (aka 'low cut') to compensate. The RW sounds more even across the sonic spectrum and just 'sits' better; but alone and solo'd out, isn't as impressive sounding. It is a subtle thing and note that it is VERY dependent on what mic position you use (and mic choice too) in the Red Wire. The Red Wire IR's are not some magic formula "use them and it's cured!" and note that the stock cabs are all excellent; but it comes down to being able to control not just the mic with the Red Wire, but the mic POSITION (caps for emphasis). With the stock cabs, you can only use whatever position was sampled; you cannot move the mic. What Red Wire's collection allows you to do is move the mic, just like you would in real life. And unlike some other boxes/software plugs that portend that you can can 'move the mic' with EQ curves; with Red Wire you are actually in reality moving the mic.

The only thing that makes the stock cabs frustrating for me was that I want to move the mic like in real life if I want more of this, less of that, etc.. With the Red Wire, you have that ability.

Chris, I know that wasn't what you were asking or driving at, but that needs to be said plainly for the folks that just glance over these posts and could walk away assuming that the stock cabs don't cut. They do. But you cannot 'move the mic' with the stock cabs; they are locked in 'as-is' and the Red Wire is intimidating to newbies because it's so large, but it's not intimidating whatsoever if you just use your head. Start with one IR and then try the next one an inch away. Move across the cone. Use your ears. Teach your ears. Trust your ears.

It's a yoga chant. Oooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. :D
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

In the mix, the difference shifts
Click to expand...
Thats exactly what I was asking for clarification on.

I'm not playing with a band at the moment, nor do I have a spare bass for recording, so my only experiences with the cabs are solo. (Maybe I should grab some backing tracks). More often than not, I've come to the conclusion that the Redwire cabs in general sound great... but most of the time I prefer the stock. Thats not to say that either choice will win in every situation, but it would explain why I usually opt for the stock cabs since I haven't really had a chance to reference either with a mix yet.

The amount of knowledge learned just from having to tweak this box amazes me - be it PEQ, discovering what a certain mic sounds like, how the distance and angle of a mic changes the tone, the proper way to do reverb, etc. All things I normally would have left up to the FOH or recording engineer. It's nice to actually know how these tools work and can help shape the sound you're looking for.

Seems I now have to finally give in to yoga. :lol:
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

There's something else I discovered because of this thread: the difference between using stock cabs with mic emulation and without. The R121 is a favorite of many, but it does add a LOT of low end to cabs. So if the tone is boomy, don't forget to take a look at the mic too.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

I'd like to post a complaint!!!!
Hey, you didn't show or tell us:

-your para eq settings on the bogner
-if you used a mic on the cali cab

Quit slackin' :mrgreen: ...yes I am kidding.

Seriously though...I set up the amp and cab like you show and it is definately not what I heard on the clip. Did you have the drive engaged? If not, then your para eq settings must have really "made" that tone happen.

(nagging hint) If you posted the preset on the axechange, I could just load 'er up and sit in awe of your preset. :)

thanks for sharing,
steve
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

guittarzzan said:
If you posted the preset on the axechange, I could just load 'er up and sit in awe of your preset.
Click to expand...

He's got a link to a zip file in the original post.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

guittarzzan said:
I'd like to post a complaint!!!!
Hey, you didn't show or tell us:

-your para eq settings on the bogner
-if you used a mic on the cali cab

Quit slackin' :mrgreen: ...yes I am kidding.

Seriously though...I set up the amp and cab like you show and it is definately not what I heard on the clip. Did you have the drive engaged? If not, then your para eq settings must have really "made" that tone happen.

(nagging hint) If you posted the preset on the axechange, I could just load 'er up and sit in awe of your preset. :)

thanks for sharing,
steve
Click to expand...

As noted in the post above this one, you can download, install and use the actual presets as noted. The Zip file with all 3 of the presets is in the OP.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Another great insight into your mind Scott, Bravo! Can't wait to try some of these techniques out :)

Spence
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Downloaded and tried those patches.
Wow.
Impressed, as always with your patches, Scott.

A couple of questions, though:

- What do you use the send/return blocks for?
I had to take them out of the way for the tone to sound fine.

- Why do you use 2 reverb blocks on the Deluxe?

- (that's three questions!) On my system ('57 RI strat w/ Fralin VH --> AxeFX --> Audiophony 8" active monitor), the Deluxe tone patch tends to "fart out" a bit in the bass when I hit the strings hard. Mind you, that's also what happens with my real '77 SFDR when the volume is set past 4. Is that an effect you actually wanted, as to try to be as close as possible as the real thing? Or it just an artifact generated by my own rig? I haven't had the chance to try it on the band's PA yet, but will on Wednesday.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

haslar said:
Downloaded and tried those patches.
Wow.
Impressed, as always with your patches, Scott.

A couple of questions, though:

- What do you use the send/return blocks for?
I had to take them out of the way for the tone to sound fine.

- Why do you use 2 reverb blocks on the Deluxe?

- (that's three questions!) On my system ('57 RI strat w/ Fralin VH --> AxeFX --> Audiophony 8" active monitor), the Deluxe tone patch tends to "fart out" a bit in the bass when I hit the strings hard. Mind you, that's also what happens with my real '77 SFDR when the volume is set past 4. Is that an effect you actually wanted, as to try to be as close as possible as the real thing? Or it just an artifact generated by my own rig? I haven't had the chance to try it on the band's PA yet, but will on Wednesday.
Click to expand...

The 'send-return' is just an extension of the signal chain. I'm assuming you then took the shunts to the output; you simply effectively cut out everything after the send (reverb, delay).

The Deluxe is setup with one spring reverb and one 'room' reverb.

I set up the Deluxe to work with single coils only; it farts out with humbuckers or high-output single coils and P90's. (Just like the analog version does).
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

haslar said:
Downloaded and tried those patches.
Wow.
Impressed, as always with your patches, Scott.

A couple of questions, though:

- What do you use the send/return blocks for?
I had to take them out of the way for the tone to sound fine.

- Why do you use 2 reverb blocks on the Deluxe?

- (that's three questions!) On my system ('57 RI strat w/ Fralin VH --> AxeFX --> Audiophony 8" active monitor), the Deluxe tone patch tends to "fart out" a bit in the bass when I hit the strings hard. Mind you, that's also what happens with my real '77 SFDR when the volume is set past 4. Is that an effect you actually wanted, as to try to be as close as possible as the real thing? Or it just an artifact generated by my own rig? I haven't had the chance to try it on the band's PA yet, but will on Wednesday.
Click to expand...

The Send/Return blocks are just used to wrap the signal chain down to another row. Not sure about the two reverb blocks. And the Deluxe patch does that for me too. I've had the same problem with my patches and have been lowering the master and thump settings to dial it out.

Edit: Oops, Scott beat me to it.
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Scott Peterson said:
The 'send-return' is just an extension of the signal chain. I'm assuming you then took the shunts to the output; you simply effectively cut out everything after the send (reverb, delay).
Click to expand...

No, I actually moved the blocks up to the same line - and got rid of the blocks I have no use for (chorus, phaser etc.).
So the integrity of your signal path is preserved.

Scott Peterson said:
I set up the Deluxe to work with single coils only; it farts out with humbuckers or high-output single coils and P90's. (Just like the analog version does).
Click to expand...

Interesting. It does fart out a bit with my single coils Fralin Vintage Hots. Maybe we just have a different right hand attack on the strings, I dunno.

marshall2553 said:
And the Deluxe patch does that for me too. I've had the same problem with my patches and have been lowering the master and thump settings to dial it out.
Click to expand...

I think I'll try that as well. Thanks for the help !
 
Re: My Fender Deluxe, JCM800, Bogner Ecstasy Red Clips/Patches

Scott,

Having turned your "A Perfect Tone" screenshot into my PC's wallpaper, I can't help but wonder if you'd share that patch (I mean, who wouldn't want a perfect tone? ;) ).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom