Wish More FAS Amps

Bumping this, a recent thread made me realize I prefer the FAS creations to the real world actual or modeled amps!

The axe is capable of so many cool things that you can't do easily or even at all in the real world, I'd honestly love to see more of Cliff's virtual models, which he takes his own design based off his years of amp experience and creates something totally original, or even some 'perfect' amps

We have so many versions of existing amps in the real world, I'd love to see something that can't be created in the real world easily but Cliff can go creatively nuts with and make something different....something from 2022, not 1952
FAS Lead 1 and Crunch are two of my favorite models. I’d love to see additional FAS models.
 
The FAS models are across the board fantastic IMO. Would love more of them.

In particular, I’d love to see Cliff do an FAS take of his old live rig where he ran a Triaxis in to a VHT poweramp. Maybe marry the USA Pre models to the D60 poweramp or something.
 
Bumping this, a recent thread made me realize I prefer the FAS creations to the real world actual or modeled amps!

The axe is capable of so many cool things that you can't do easily or even at all in the real world, I'd honestly love to see more of Cliff's virtual models, which he takes his own design based off his years of amp experience and creates something totally original, or even some 'perfect' amps

We have so many versions of existing amps in the real world, I'd love to see something that can't be created in the real world easily but Cliff can go creatively nuts with and make something different....something from 2022, not 1952
I very much agree. I would like to see a FAS "model 1969" Marshall (Major, or year 1967 Super Bass 100, ~Williamson clone.) It is both a great amp and a terribly designed and very basically flawed amp. The NFB loop was huge. It included a preamp tube, tonestack, Cathodyne PI, 12au7 driver tubes, power tubes, UL OT. It had terrible ringing due to phase lag. "Transient Distortion" per Matti Otala. A conjunctive filter (2n + 5-20K resistor) can damp that ringing just part-way down and, in so doing, produce some very interesting and unique overtones. Also, a conjunctive filter is much more effective with an UL OT. And, a conjunctive filter helps to remove some of the harsh high end of an UL OT -- along with a lot of hash and fizz. That sterile, super-accurate, UL high-end is generally unwanted in a guitar amp. After that, add a jumped 1st-Stage and the NFB component values from an EVH "brown" Plexi, and it starts to sound pretty good. And for good measure, add an adjustable cathode resistor to the 12au7 driver stage -- to create a MV/saturation control. And, make the conjunctive filter's resistor adjustable/tunable, too. The tonestack will still be somewhat limited in use and range -- due to the NFB loop trying to "correct" the tone settings. But, that is where some of the great low end resonances are created. And those resonances are where a lot of the fist-punch-in-the-chest bass comes from. Anyway, it is a flawed amp. And, it is pretty unmaintainable -- between the high voltage 560-660v and the NFB phase lag. And, that is particularly true if a squarish distortion signal is sent into the front of the amp. At full-bore, a trifecta like that would produce an almost 3K transient voltage spike. So, big expensive UL OT's blew.

Today, in real life, the only tubes that can handle that kind of high voltage, 560+vdc on the screens, are mostly just a few of the NOS tubes such as Mullard EL34's, at $250 each (last time I looked.) The "model 1969" Marshall Plexi, built in 1967, can no longer exist as a working man's amp -- due to it's very extreme and also very poor design. In fact, it barely existed for a year as an amp, in 1967, when Marshall "created" it -- due to it's unreliability. But today, it can exist very reliably and become an even better amp in the Fractal Universe -- kind of an Electronic Jurassic Park. Or, maybe, I am thinking of an electronic Geriatric Park. I really don't know. I might be too old to know for sure.
 
I very much agree. I would like to see a FAS "model 1969" Marshall (Major, or year 1967 Super Bass 100, ~Williamson clone.) It is both a great amp and a terribly designed and very basically flawed amp. The NFB loop was huge. It included a preamp tube, tonestack, Cathodyne PI, 12au7 driver tubes, power tubes, UL OT. It had terrible ringing due to phase lag. "Transient Distortion" per Matti Otala. A conjunctive filter (2n + 5-20K resistor) can damp that ringing just part-way down and, in so doing, produce some very interesting and unique overtones. Also, a conjunctive filter is much more effective with an UL OT. And, a conjunctive filter helps to remove some of the harsh high end of an UL OT -- along with a lot of hash and fizz. That sterile, super-accurate, UL high-end is generally unwanted in a guitar amp. After that, add a jumped 1st-Stage and the NFB component values from an EVH "brown" Plexi, and it starts to sound pretty good. And for good measure, add an adjustable cathode resistor to the 12au7 driver stage -- to create a MV/saturation control. And, make the conjunctive filter's resistor adjustable/tunable, too. The tonestack will still be somewhat limited in use and range -- due to the NFB loop trying to "correct" the tone settings. But, that is where some of the great low end resonances are created. And those resonances are where a lot of the fist-punch-in-the-chest bass comes from. Anyway, it is a flawed amp. And, it is pretty unmaintainable -- between the high voltage 560-660v and the NFB phase lag. And, that is particularly true if a squarish distortion signal is sent into the front of the amp. At full-bore, a trifecta like that would produce an almost 3K transient voltage spike. So, big expensive UL OT's blew.

Today, in real life, the only tubes that can handle that kind of high voltage, 560+vdc on the screens, are mostly just a few of the NOS tubes such as Mullard EL34's, at $250 each (last time I looked.) The "model 1969" Marshall Plexi, built in 1967, can no longer exist as a working man's amp -- due to it's very extreme and also very poor design. In fact, it barely existed for a year as an amp, in 1967, when Marshall "created" it -- due to it's unreliability. But today, it can exist very reliably and become an even better amp in the Fractal Universe -- kind of an Electronic Jurassic Park. Or, maybe, I am thinking of an electronic Geriatric Park. I really don't know. I might be too old to know for sure.
Yeah that sounds like a perfect example of something that can truly only exist in Fractal land... an interesting amp but definitely needs a FAS version
 
I very much agree. I would like to see a FAS "model 1969" Marshall (Major, or year 1967 Super Bass 100, ~Williamson clone.) It is both a great amp and a terribly designed and very basically flawed amp. The NFB loop was huge. It included a preamp tube, tonestack, Cathodyne PI, 12au7 driver tubes, power tubes, UL OT. It had terrible ringing due to phase lag. "Transient Distortion" per Matti Otala. A conjunctive filter (2n + 5-20K resistor) can damp that ringing just part-way down and, in so doing, produce some very interesting and unique overtones. Also, a conjunctive filter is much more effective with an UL OT. And, a conjunctive filter helps to remove some of the harsh high end of an UL OT -- along with a lot of hash and fizz. That sterile, super-accurate, UL high-end is generally unwanted in a guitar amp. After that, add a jumped 1st-Stage and the NFB component values from an EVH "brown" Plexi, and it starts to sound pretty good. And for good measure, add an adjustable cathode resistor to the 12au7 driver stage -- to create a MV/saturation control. And, make the conjunctive filter's resistor adjustable/tunable, too. The tonestack will still be somewhat limited in use and range -- due to the NFB loop trying to "correct" the tone settings. But, that is where some of the great low end resonances are created. And those resonances are where a lot of the fist-punch-in-the-chest bass comes from. Anyway, it is a flawed amp. And, it is pretty unmaintainable -- between the high voltage 560-660v and the NFB phase lag. And, that is particularly true if a squarish distortion signal is sent into the front of the amp. At full-bore, a trifecta like that would produce an almost 3K transient voltage spike. So, big expensive UL OT's blew.

Today, in real life, the only tubes that can handle that kind of high voltage, 560+vdc on the screens, are mostly just a few of the NOS tubes such as Mullard EL34's, at $250 each (last time I looked.) The "model 1969" Marshall Plexi, built in 1967, can no longer exist as a working man's amp -- due to it's very extreme and also very poor design. In fact, it barely existed for a year as an amp, in 1967, when Marshall "created" it -- due to it's unreliability. But today, it can exist very reliably and become an even better amp in the Fractal Universe -- kind of an Electronic Jurassic Park. Or, maybe, I am thinking of an electronic Geriatric Park. I really don't know. I might be too old to know for sure.
I think this request requires it’s own thread. 😜
 
I think this request requires it’s own thread. 😜
Yaass, you caught me. There is already a Marshall Major Wish/Request thread -- languishing, I might say, lol. So, I used my sneakiest segue and "casually" mentioned it again :D. However, the 1969 model (1966-67) never really belonged in the analog world. Which is why, it was constantly trying to pass into the next one. :tearsofjoy: That said, it had some really great and unique tones -- with many more great tones waiting to be unlocked. And, I really do believe, it would be much happier as a FAS Amp in the Fractal Universe -- "You sly dog, you got me monologuing, again!"
 
I completely agree that the FAS amp models are great. FAS Buttery, FAS Brown and FAS Skull Crusher have stood out to me. But, I still haven't explored every FAS model yet. It would be great to see more FAS amp models.

It is interesting that there is no physical amp or MIMIC involved in the FAS amp models.

And, It is a gift that so many of Cliff's deep-level amp tweaks are made available to the user.
It makes it so much easier to create a desired sound.
 
100%

FAS Modern is where its at. I'm sure I read somewhere that Cliff said the FAS models were based on certain amps or traits of amps but with the negative or "undesirable" artifacts removed/minimized if anyone recalls something similar? This is what I think the next progression should be.
 
I've been having fun trying to think of some FAS amp models that I would like to see realized.

FAS BHD-"Big Hairy D" An idealized high gain HRM Dumble. I have tried to get the ODS amps to a higher gain level while retaining the characteristics that I enjoy about it, but it is a balancing act. And other amps that contain a certain amount of that flavor, are really their own thing. I think for the kind of player that likes a more "vintage" kind of gain texture, just at a "modern" amount, would enjoy the articulation and harmonic content that an idealized high gain version of this style of amp could bring. (In my head, it would kind of be like a HBE channel for an ODS.)

FAS Gala - Idealized Silver Jubilee. The current version of the SJ we have, which is really a Lerxst Omega, is a fantastic model, but it is a variation on that classic amp. There have been a few people that have wished for a SJ model that is of a more familiar flavor and I think a FAS version would satisfy that crowd while also being easier to dial in than a real one.

FAS Pristine - Idealized clean amp. I think having a high headroom, harmonically rich idealized clean amp would be a welcome addition. I see it as an amp that, no matter how you set it or what you throw on top of it, the amp will not collapse into itself, flub out, or get "swirly" like a nice vintage amp does. (Those characteristics are welcome in vintage amps btw) I think it would cater to the crowd who primarily play clean, as well as those that have requested more amps that are famous for their clean sound like Two-Rock amps.

FAS Voltaic- Idealized AC 30. From single coil chime to bright and percussive high gain. We have several amazing AC-30 style amps in the Axe, but I figure, why not?

FAS Hey What- Idealized Hiwatt. I imagine this as a Hiwatt DR103 that can go from sparkling clean to high gain with just the drive control while always retaining it's signature voice.

These are just a few ideas. Yes you could always tweak the advanced parameters on existing models or use a boost or Drive block, etc. I just think it's fun to brainstorm FAS amp models. I like the idea of having idealized and advanced versions of these amps. I respect that people enjoy certain aspects of the physical versions and work with or around these "quirks." Having said that, to me, those quirks are not the part of the tone that I enjoy. There is no right or wrong and if time and resources allow for it, I think more FAS amps would be a welcome addition to the already vast roster.

Anyone else like to have some fun with this?
 
I've been having fun trying to think of some FAS amp models that I would like to see realized.

FAS BHD-"Big Hairy D" An idealized high gain HRM Dumble. I have tried to get the ODS amps to a higher gain level while retaining the characteristics that I enjoy about it, but it is a balancing act. And other amps that contain a certain amount of that flavor, are really their own thing. I think for the kind of player that likes a more "vintage" kind of gain texture, just at a "modern" amount, would enjoy the articulation and harmonic content that an idealized high gain version of this style of amp could bring. (In my head, it would kind of be like a HBE channel for an ODS.)

FAS Gala - Idealized Silver Jubilee. The current version of the SJ we have, which is really a Lerxst Omega, is a fantastic model, but it is a variation on that classic amp. There have been a few people that have wished for a SJ model that is of a more familiar flavor and I think a FAS version would satisfy that crowd while also being easier to dial in than a real one.

FAS Pristine - Idealized clean amp. I think having a high headroom, harmonically rich idealized clean amp would be a welcome addition. I see it as an amp that, no matter how you set it or what you throw on top of it, the amp will not collapse into itself, flub out, or get "swirly" like a nice vintage amp does. (Those characteristics are welcome in vintage amps btw) I think it would cater to the crowd who primarily play clean, as well as those that have requested more amps that are famous for their clean sound like Two-Rock amps.

FAS Voltaic- Idealized AC 30. From single coil chime to bright and percussive high gain. We have several amazing AC-30 style amps in the Axe, but I figure, why not?

FAS Hey What- Idealized Hiwatt. I imagine this as a Hiwatt DR103 that can go from sparkling clean to high gain with just the drive control while always retaining it's signature voice.

These are just a few ideas. Yes you could always tweak the advanced parameters on existing models or use a boost or Drive block, etc. I just think it's fun to brainstorm FAS amp models. I like the idea of having idealized and advanced versions of these amps. I respect that people enjoy certain aspects of the physical versions and work with or around these "quirks." Having said that, to me, those quirks are not the part of the tone that I enjoy. There is no right or wrong and if time and resources allow for it, I think more FAS amps would be a welcome addition to the already vast roster.

Anyone else like to have some fun with this?
+1000000000000000. I would LOVE these also. Cliff's "original designs" or mods are wonderful. FAS Crunch and Buttery are still two of my favorite models. (And my love affair with Buttery goes back to my Standard and Ultra days.) Also on the short list: Hot Rod, Modern. Slightly off-topic: Shimmer Drive is from another planet of awesomeness, and FAS Boost ain't so bad, either. More of Cliff's designs, please!
 
More FAS amps. The Fractal has the potential to create better amp tones than real amps. Rather than try to emulate existing tube amps, create something better. Get rid of the hissy, flubby, nuances that some tube amps have.
 
More FAS amps. The Fractal has the potential to create better amp tones than real amps. Rather than try to emulate existing tube amps, create something better. Get rid of the hissy, flubby, nuances that some tube amps have.
Just saying. A lot of those things like “hissy” are what contribute to certain amps working so well in a band mix. Like a JCM800 or most vintage Marshall’s.
 
And we have plenty of those to choose from and yes they sound great. But it may be possible to achieve something even better in the digital world without the limitations of circuits and tubes. When boundaries are removed you don't know what can be created.
 
I was trying to look over the schematics of either of the Laney amps but I am not versed in these things. What changes would someone make to an existing model to get closer? I used to have the GH50, I miss that amp though it wasn't very versatile being essentially a single channel.

I would not say its a Marshall, to my ears anyway. Its more 'grunty" and thick than any Marshal I have ever played through. This is an am I'd love to see in the FAS lineup, especially rather than another Marshall.
 
I also have played through a GH50. Very nice amp. Try the Atomica. At least to me, it gives the same feel and similar tone. I use the FX Return of a Marshall through a 1936 cab. It may be totally different for you depending on the IR you use or what FRFR system, etc.
 
Great suggestions. I'd also add in the iconic Marshall 8100 with a big bottle power section to maintain that "stiff" bottom end, but with a smidgen of tubalicistity. Something like a VHT 2/150 or something.
Seconded, we need the 8100 and more “death metal” sounding distortion pedals 😅. Some of the best death metal tones were out of weird multi fx units you wouldn’t expect, from the likes of Korg, Zoom and Digitech.
 
Seconded, we need the 8100 and more “death metal” sounding distortion pedals 😅. Some of the best death metal tones were out of weird multi fx units you wouldn’t expect, from the likes of Korg, Zoom and Digitech.
Death metal guide.

Death = 8100
Suffocation Effigy of the forgotten = Korg unit.
Zoom? I dunno haha. I know a guy on YouTube who uses a zoom unit, Danny Cynic is his name, always thought his tones sounded good for that.
Digitech = Deeds of Flesh.
Boss = Bolt Thrower.
 
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