modern vs 50's wiring. what do you prefer?

Chewie5150

Chewie5150

Fractal Fanatic
Relating to my post about my PRS S2 594
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/prs-shopping-today-i-picked-one.190554/
Some discussion on wiring got me thinking. I recently upgraded the pickups in this guitar from the 'S' 58/15's to the Core LT's. Amazing upgrade. Sounds awesome. the LT"s do use an A2 magnet vs the A5 used in the 'S' pups. Other difference is the S2 594 uses .033uf tone cap vs the .022uf in the core. My new LT pups in the S2 guitar are warm/smooth and clear though darker than the previous which given what I just mentioned isn't suprising...i got thinking: Modern vs 50's wiring. Currently My S2 has the tone cap on the input lug on Vol pot so wondered about switching over the 50's wiring. I know neither is better or worse..but really a preference thing so....

this is a nice short reference article i was reading on it.
https://www.fralinpickups.com/2020/03/01/50s-wiring-vs-modern-wiring/

Which do you prefer? modern vs 50's wiring or other mods to your wiring.
 
Last edited:
50s for me, with a .015 neck cap and .010 bridge. I tried 50s for the neck and modern for the bridge for a while, but I just find 50s all the way around to be much more usable for my style.
 
If you always play with your volume on 10, there is literally no difference between them. If you use the volume control a lot, the tone pots behave very differently, and it does come down to preference.

I prefer 60s wiring, which is basically modern wiring with the wiper lug grounded on the tone pot (reduces EMI noise slightly) instead of Lug 3. They switched because grounding lug 3 is how the volume pot is done, and they can do them all in batches as opposed to having to ground volume and tone pots differently....it reduces labor slightly at the cost of a little bit more nosie.

They work differently because the volume pot is wired as a voltage divider and the tone pot is wired as a variable resistor (it's essentially only using half the pot).

Also, it seems like the names might be somewhat of a misnomer - there are 50s Les Pauls with 60s wiring out there, and the people who own them claim they're all original. IDK. I wasn't around then. But, I like 60s wiring because I don't like what the 50s tone pot does.

I almost never play with my volumes on 10, and I use my tone knobs all the time. 50s tone pots are effectively additional volume controls for about the top half of their travel. By the time the tone actually gets darker, you've lost a LOT of level.

The only other mod I do to LP-style wiring (which my 594 also has) is to put a 47k taper resistor in parallel with the bridge tone pot. That's very much a preference thing.

If I set my amps (models) bright enough that the neck pickup sounds good, the bridge pickup will take your head off in a way I don't like. I found myself almost never turning the bridge tone control over ~5 and the range of it that I actually liked was from around 2 to just above 4, and that little bit from just below 4 to just ~5 was REALLY finicky. The taper resistor essentially takes that range from 0 to ~5 and expands it to the full range of the knob.

Everything else still works as I think it should: volume controls are interactive in the middle position, you still get a significant treble boost turning up from ~9 to 10 on the volume control. The "gain" ranges available from ~7 to 10 on the bridge or from ~3 to ~8 on the neck are exactly what I want. It still does woman tone and all the other special tricks. I just have more range I can actually use from the bridge tone pot, and the tone pots actually work as tone pots.

I need to get around to doing the taper resistor for my strat's bridge tone pot too. Like I said...I like my amps a little bright, and I never turn it above ~3.
 
yeah i'm not sure if i want to go the 50's wiring route quite yet as i just want to maintain some more presence while rolling vol knob...i use that fair bit in my playing. I came across this fralin mod. looks like a simple mod
 

Attachments

  • meme1.jpg
    meme1.jpg
    56.1 KB · Views: 19
'50s all the way, on Gibsons and PartsCasters. I prefer the reaction of both the volume and tone controls with the vintage scheme. Personally, I hate the treble bleed mods. Had them everywhere, now they're all gone.

With Fractal, the best way I've found to preserve high end while riding the volume for gain is to use an external controller on a Volume block. I love having the option to darken up a bit using the guitar's volume pot, or not darken using a volume pedal. I leverage this difference constantly.
 
allenma said:
With Fractal, the best way I've found to preserve high end while riding the volume for gain is to use an external controller on a Volume block. I love having the option to darken up a bit using the guitar's volume pot, or not darken using a volume pedal. I leverage this difference constantly.
Click to expand...
It's worth pointing out that 60s/modern wiring does that "better" than 50s, and yes, that aspect of volume pedals is pretty cool.

FWIW, I don't like treble bleeds. I think the difference is whether you set up the amp when the volume is on 10 or not. The treble that it's going to lose is almost all between ~9 and 10....it doesn't seem like it loses a significant amount turning down further.
 
allenma said:
Sorry, I'm not following - what part is better, and in what way? Curious what your experience is.
Click to expand...

Ahh. I see the miscommunication. It's a small difference, but you mentioned liking that the volume pot darkens a bit. I believe that happens a bit more with 60s/modern wiring than 50s. With any of them, most of it happens at the very top of the pot. I think of it as a treble "boost" going from ~9 to 10 on the volume. Below that, 50s does preserve treble a bit more, which means 60s/modern exaggerates the difference between a volume pedal and the volume pot.....assuming that the volume control you're using in the fractal doesn't do the same thing virtually.
 
I've never done a direct wiring comparison, but I'm told my HH guitar is 50s style, and I definitely notice a dropoff in highs when I turn down.

It's annoying, and I wish there was a real way around it. I've used an active buffer for that purpose sometimes, but I'd vastly prefer not to go there.

The unavoidable fact is, cable capacitance interacts with passive volume controls, end of story. Different compromises optimize for different things under different circumstances, but there's no free lunch.
 
Dave Merrill said:
I've never done a direct wiring comparison, but I'm told my HH guitar is 50s style, and I definitely notice a dropoff in highs when I turn down.

It's annoying, and I wish there was a real way around it. I've used an active buffer for that purpose sometimes, but I'd vastly prefer not to go there.

The unavoidable fact is, cable capacitance interacts with passive volume controls, end of story. Different compromises optimize for different things under different circumstances, but there's no free lunch.
Click to expand...

I used the Creation Audio Labs Redeemer buffer for a while, and I really loved it for my Les Paul, but I can also understand not wanting something like that.
 
Treble bleed is really quite a polarizing thing in the guitar community it seems eh. In an Epiphone and LP Tribute I had put in wiring harnesses with 50's wiring and quite liked the results in those guitars. In my S2 594 I'm not sure I want to change things too much as the tones I"m getting now are nearly perfect for what I'm after for this guitar. Its just that it leans a bit too dark when I roll off. .Its a trade off though . i get it. I figure if i do a treble bleed cap/resistor its really non destructive. I can install/remove in minutes and only be out like $10 or less.
 
State of Epicicity said:
I used the Creation Audio Labs Redeemer buffer for a while, and I really loved it for my Les Paul, but I can also understand not wanting something like that.
Click to expand...
You've got me thinking about doing this.

Option a, no buffer: Treble roll-off as you turn down, some people like the result. It's organic behavior, for lack of a better word.

Option b, buffer: Tone is consistent at any volume (except for how the amp handles it of course), but you lose the organic interactions, and may have more high end than no buffer even all the way up. You also have to manage always having batteries around, and never running out during a show.

As it stands, I really do notice the tone change as I turn down, and it bugs me.
 
Chewie5150 said:
Treble bleed is really quite a polarizing thing in the guitar community it seems eh. In an Epiphone and LP Tribute I had put in wiring harnesses with 50's wiring and quite liked the results in those guitars. In my S2 594 I'm not sure I want to change things too much as the tones I"m getting now are nearly perfect for what I'm after for this guitar. Its just that it leans a bit too dark when I roll off. .Its a trade off though . i get it. I figure if i do a treble bleed cap/resistor its really non destructive. I can install/remove in minutes and only be out like $10 or less.
Click to expand...
Try 220pF or 250pF instead of 180pF if you want more brights when rolling off....
 
Chewie5150 said:
Treble bleed is really quite a polarizing thing in the guitar community it seems eh. In an Epiphone and LP Tribute I had put in wiring harnesses with 50's wiring and quite liked the results in those guitars. In my S2 594 I'm not sure I want to change things too much as the tones I"m getting now are nearly perfect for what I'm after for this guitar. Its just that it leans a bit too dark when I roll off. .Its a trade off though . i get it. I figure if i do a treble bleed cap/resistor its really non destructive. I can install/remove in minutes and only be out like $10 or less.
Click to expand...

I thought 594s all came with treble bleeds. I think mine did (if it did, I removed it right away).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom