Matrix GT1000 vs. Valve amp Peavey 50 50 classic

Albion

Albion

Inspired
Hi all,
I made some testing with my new matrix gt1000 vs my heavy Peavey classic 50 50...
I have an Axe FX II

Honestly I have to say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I've read all your nice posts about matrix and how it's better then any Tube amp with axe fx...
The result of a couple of intense hour of testing is:
Matrix is nice but as soon as I switch to tube amp I get the right tone!
A real tube tone...
Matrix mostly with medium gain patches is quite "hard" and and less "pounchy"
Peavey is more "silky" and soft but with more dynamics and headroom...
The difference is like a real 22 years girl and a plastic doll! :-((
I'hope to be wrong...
I know there are some tweeks to make more "Tube sounding" Axe patches but my question is: why some of you is so happy of matrix sound "out of the box"?

Albion
 
Ive said before several things which Ill try and para-phrase.

1. You have to re-tube our patches to the new amp. Your old patches were designed on you 50/50 and will sound best through that.

2. A Valve amp will always sound better to human ears - doesn't mean the tone is more accurate. What I mean by that (and I fell into the same trap) is that if you design a patch on the Matrix of a JCM800 (for instance - could be any amp) then play that patch through a valve power amp it will usually sound better - but then play a real JCM800 and the matrix combo generally sounds closer to the real thing. Our ears (and valves) play tricks on us - we are naturally drawn to the affects even if there not actually the most realistic.

3. I dont think anybody's said the Matrix is better than any tube amp. Its been said the Matrix is more neutral, so is generally a better fit. Its been said the Matrix is close enough once patches are tuned. Its been said that while the Matrix isnt 100%, the size and weight make it worth the swap. Its also been said that if you want Marshal tones, and use a Marshall Valve Power amp it will be better than the matrix - ditto a Mesa amp for Mesa tones, and thats the way to go if you dont mind size/weight. Again, it has also been said if you want Marshall tones and use a Mesa Power amp - the Matrix will usually get you closer.

4. While the Matrix is a great product, and ticks a lot of box's - no product including the Matrix is going to work for everyone.

Final comment on your post - theres no way the Peavey has more headroom than the Matrix as such, thats in the specs - BUT it does depend what your playing it through. If your using a 16 Ohm cab and running a single channel of the Matrix - then the Peavey will appear to have more headroom (it doesnt but the way it still seems clean when its beginning to clip and compress makes it appear as though it does) . Run it into a 4 Ohm cab in bridged mode and the Peaevy doesnt come close (or even appear to, theres just too much power available from the Matrix) - though you may blow a speaker trying this unless its a 4x12 with some high power handling speakers.
 
Albion said:
Hi all,
I made some testing with my new matrix gt1000 vs my heavy Peavey classic 50 50...
I have an Axe FX II

Honestly I have to say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I've read all your nice posts about matrix and how it's better then any Tube amp with axe fx...
The result of a couple of intense hour of testing is:
Matrix is nice but as soon as I switch to tube amp I get the right tone!
A real tube tone...
Matrix mostly with medium gain patches is quite "hard" and and less "pounchy"
Peavey is more "silky" and soft but with more dynamics and headroom...
The difference is like a real 22 years girl and a plastic doll! :-((
I'hope to be wrong...
I know there are some tweeks to make more "Tube sounding" Axe patches but my question is: why some of you is so happy of matrix sound "out of the box"?

Albion
Click to expand...

Hi there,
You are welcome to contact me on matt@matrixamplification.com and I shall do my best to help you.

My best regards
Matt
 
I've used both (well I have a Matrix 800), and I enjoyed the Peavey for it's silky and compressed authentic tube tones back when I used lesser modellers that needed all the help they could get. Not being sarcastic - it was a good tone with the available technology at the time.

But now with the AxeFX and patches designed for tube tone, or even clean acoustic patches not designed for tube tone, I found the Peavey too "squashy" - nice, but not close to the punch and versatility I get from the Matrix.
 
I've tried a few power amps with the Axe II but as paulmap8306 stated above, each amp adds it's own flavor.
that's all fine and good if you are a "Marshall" guy and don't care about the other amp models or a "Mesa" guy etc.
I found the "Feel" to be in reality a bit better with tube amps than the matrix , but the difference is small enough that the gT10000FX is "good enough" for my needs and it adds no "amp specific flavor" that all of the tube amps I tried did.
maybe the VHT/Fryette 2/50/2 would've been flat enough for me but I really like the 1U size and weight of the matrix.
I was really interested in checking out the Fryette LXII but that seems to have been shelved for almost a year now and no where to be seen in the near future, so for now Matrix it is :)
 
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Just a guess here, but... I bet the OP didn't turn off Power Amp sims when switching to the Peavey. Or, he didn't turn them on when switching to the Matrix.
 
Albion - just a quick question
were your Axe-II presets originally dialled in with the Peavey or the Matrix?

my guess is, which ever one they were originally dialled into would be the one that sounded best..
it's not a straight shootout between Matrix and Peavey
and I'm not saying one is better than the other - cos that's kinda pointless

one thing I know for sure though is that you cannot switch power amp and / or cabs and expect no change one way or the other
the Peavey will be less transparent than the Matrix so your presets as they stand right now are most likely better suited to the Peavey..
that said, maybe try creating a preset from scratch via the Matrix and then see how it sounds through the Peavey..

it's kinda funny really because these sorts of tests / shootouts tend to have unsurprisingly surprising results..

to get a better idea, maybe try creating a preset for the Matrix..
then another for the Peavey
and then compare the Matrix tuned preset through the Matrix, with the Peavey tuned preset through the Peavey..
this would be a more "apples with apples" comparison
 
Ill also add to the OP, this is NOT a set of "Matrix Fanboi" responses. Just trying to make the amp work for you with some thoughts, and ideas. If you try them - and still arnt happy its no biggie. As I said - no piece of gear is for everyone.
 
I really thank you for your comments.
I don't think you are here to support Matrix amp but just to give some good advices to a new Matrix user.
I've to say that i will do some more testing but the general impression is that you can really appreciate the difference in comparison with a real tube amp when using low gain sound.
Hi gain amps are more compressed and the general impression is better.
This is why I think i should add more commpression tweeking my sound for medium/low gain amp models.
I know there are some tricks for Axe Ultra but i think we could do the same with axe 2.
I will search online and ask Matrix for some suggestions.
And I will appreciate some more comments from Matrix users.
Albion
 
Hi Albion

I am from a tube amp diezel head and move to AXE for more flexibility, tweakability, etc. I tried in the return of my Diezel Head 100W Einstein. A quiet "straight power amp" not too much colored, to push a 2*12 eminence guitar cab.
I really prefer in my home stud the versatility of FRFR. So move to Matrix GM50 and even to push the guitar cab 2*12 or a FR cab, the Matrix clearly help to magnify the Axe presets with the real feeling of tube amp.

And when I want to use the Diezel power amp only, I need to deeply modify the presets.
As a conclusion much easier to dial into the matrix than the tube power amp.
just my 2 cents...
 
this weekend I threw in a Mulitcomp in front of my Fx Loop block and damn if it didn't add that "oomph" that I felt was missing a little bit
thru the Matrix->2X12.
give it a try, experiment with the freq controls, I was surprised how positive the addition was to several amps (Mesa USA,and Recto, and the Brit super off of the top of my head)



Albion said:
I really thank you for your comments.
I don't think you are here to support Matrix amp but just to give some good advices to a new Matrix user.
I've to say that i will do some more testing but the general impression is that you can really appreciate the difference in comparison with a real tube amp when using low gain sound.
Hi gain amps are more compressed and the general impression is better.
This is why I think i should add more commpression tweeking my sound for medium/low gain amp models.
I know there are some tricks for Axe Ultra but i think we could do the same with axe 2.
I will search online and ask Matrix for some suggestions.
And I will appreciate some more comments from Matrix users.
Albion
Click to expand...
 
Albion said:
Hi all,
I made some testing with my new matrix gt1000 vs my heavy Peavey classic 50 50...
I have an Axe FX II

Honestly I have to say that i'm a bit disappointed.
I've read all your nice posts about matrix and how it's better then any Tube amp with axe fx...
The result of a couple of intense hour of testing is:
Matrix is nice but as soon as I switch to tube amp I get the right tone!
A real tube tone...
Matrix mostly with medium gain patches is quite "hard" and and less "pounchy"
Peavey is more "silky" and soft but with more dynamics and headroom...
The difference is like a real 22 years girl and a plastic doll! :-((
I'hope to be wrong...
I know there are some tweeks to make more "Tube sounding" Axe patches but my question is: why some of you is so happy of matrix sound "out of the box"?

Albion
Click to expand...

Which FW version you use? What speaker system?

Eq can be dialed to compensate for frequencies.

Axe can be dialed in for more compression or bounce, squishy.

Also if you were using a tube power amp, make sure you turned power amp modeling back on in the Axe menu. If you were running with power amp on previously in the Axe you were getting double tube whammy.
 
I can't fault my Matrix GT800FX, it does exactly what I want.

I turned it up really loud in a large venue on Friday, nearly too the f**king windows out of the place :lol and I was a good 100ft away from them

I also have a 36kg Mesa Valve power amp, I could take that to a gig but I've not even looked at it since buying the Matrix.

Any eq / tubey feel discrepancies can be dialed in /out on the AXE.
 
Japster said:
I turned it up really loud in a large venue on Friday, nearly too the f**king windows out of the place :lol and I was a good 100ft away from them.
Click to expand...

collateral damage is certifiable proof that rock'n'roll happened in that place....

cool..
 
A SS will NEVER replace a tube poweramp when it comes to sound ... I A/B'ed the matrix GT800FX to the powersection of a mesa dual rectifier ... The sound came to live with the boogie without tweaking , the matrix was just loud ... Eq won't get the upper harmonics that are produced by tubes ...

At that point I realized that tubes where the missing ingredient to get an "organic" , "punchy" en "rich" sound (for metal , don't think for cleans or crunch it will be that prominent)

So imho if you're serious about tone , you won't comprise in sound or weight ...

If I think about the differences again , i'm still surpised , i too believed I had THE tone ;-)

So in the end I got a diezel d-moll head and use a modeller for FX only (live) , at home offcourse modelling with some KrK rockits ...

I guess a lot of people are just satisfied with how loud these amps are and don't know what they miss (as I was until that comparison)

Raf
 
Raf_666 said:
So imho if you're serious about tone , you won't comprise in sound or weight ...
Click to expand...

when you have to fly to get to gigs
weight is all you think about..

to be honest..
I don't see the GT1000FX as being a compromise in anything at all..

it's light, powerful, loud and transparent..
which is absolutely everything that I need of a poweramp

the Axe makes the noise..
the GT makes it loud..
for me that's the job done

on top of that, the GT1000FX does have a better feel to it that the other SS poweramps..

so when I delta the GT's specs [power / weight etc] with the other options
and add in the feel factor
the GT wins by a country mile

for me it's the first / best choice
 
Raf_666 said:
A SS will NEVER replace a tube poweramp when it comes to sound ... I A/B'ed the matrix GT800FX to the powersection of a mesa dual rectifier ... The sound came to live with the boogie without tweaking , the matrix was just loud ... Eq won't get the upper harmonics that are produced by tubes ...
Raf
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have a Triple Rectifier I like to use to power my Axe-FX. The poweramp section of that amp has so much low end punch to it I have never heard another poweramp sound/feel like that. I have considered selling it to get a Matrix GT1000FX. I am not sure if it would be more like my Triple Rectifier, or more like the ART SLA-2 I also use sometimes....
 
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