Marshall power section vs. Matrix GT

MarkShrader

MarkShrader

Inspired
Has anyone owned or played through a Marshall EL34 50/50 ? I'm looking for a power section similar to what I have in my JVM205H 50 watt head.

I bought a Matrix GT1000FX a couple of months ago, and my band mates and I are finding it harder and harder to deny that the Marshall power section sounds WAY better into my 2x12 cab. Don't get me wrong, the Matrix is a great amp but...

Would super appreciate if anyone has any experience with a Marshall power amp product.

Thanks!
 
I have played thru a 9000 power amp into 2 4x12 basket weave cabs from the late 70's and my JVM,HBE,ATOMICA and Brit Pre
patches sounded godly. I don't know how much of a difference there is between the 9000 and the 50/50 though.
 
kmanick, is the 9000 a Marshall product also? It appears as though the 50/50 is discontinued, I cannot find it for sale anywhere on the web.
 
yes it is there is a 9005 too you don't want that one
my buddy has this rig (uses the JMP-1 in from of it into a lexicon.
My Axe II sounded great thru it , but it does add a dstinct Marshall flavor to your patches.
If you predominantly use those types of amps you'll be golden
here's one dirt f8'n cheap I'm tempted to grab it myself
Marshall 9000 Series 9005 Stereo Tube EL34 Power Amp | eBay
 
I've played through an EL34 100/100
I own a Marshall 8008
and a GT1000FX

the EL34 colours the tone the most
the 8008 and GT1000FX colour it less
the GT1000FX don't really colour the tone at all, but you do get the valve power 'feeling'

all three have that valve 'feel'
all three are fkn loud!!!

the GT1000FX looks coolest when powered up

the GT1000FX is physically the lightest by a lot

I'll never get an EL34 100/100 cos their way to heavy [it'll cause over weight charges on flights]

the 8008 has been all around the world and has only ever failed once so I know first hand how reliable it is
the GT1000FX is new, but the build quality and components are first class so I have no reason to doubt it

right now I use the GT1000FX [the 8008 is now a reserve amp]

EDIT: for me, the final comment is a little dodgy cos I'm actually a Marshall endorsed artist.. lol...
well... I still use Marshall 4x12 cabs.... so I'm still flying the flag.. lol..
but it's Matrix power all the way for me now..
 
Last edited:
A Marshall - or any valve power amp come to that - wont sound the same as the power section from the JVM. The JVMs section is tailored to the amps overall tone and response A separate power amp - by design - as to do that less because it doesn't know what it will be coupled with.

Ive used a Marshall 9100, along with VHT and Mesa power amps - and the Matrix gear which I now use. Initially the Matrix was "close enough" with the size/weight being the main factor for me. The Marshal amps in particular are HEAVY and 3U, but that was back with a standard. The improvements the AFX2 has been taking mean im not worried on any level about not using valves.

Heres a curious thing though. Take a patch - ANY patch and play it through a valve section and the Matrix - and the valve section tends to sound better. HOWEVER, A/B the patches using those amps against the REAL amp - and the Matrix combo sounds/feels closer than the valve power section. What that means to me, is with the right patch changes the Matrix/AFX gets closer to the sound feel of the intended modelled amp than the AFX/Valve power amp (unless its a perfect match - like the Mesa power amps with a Recto I guess) despite the fact the AFX/Valve amp actually sounds more pleasing on its own. Something about valves going on there - BUT doesnt mean that just because it sounds better it IS better. In many cases its further from the real amp.

My advice, would be stop comparing things - tune your patches and play. You can get locked into a never ending circle comparing things. If something isnt right it will jump out at you If its right enough, you have the tools in the AFX - and its all about the music not the tone/feel in honesty (despite what we think). The song/performance is 98% of what the audience judges you on - not tone or feel. As long as your rig inspires you to play, it shouldnt matter any more. If the AFX/Matrix doesnt inspire you change, if it does - stop comparing.
 
Clarky & paulmapp8306,

Really good comments, thanks for your thoughts.

kmanick,
No I have not. All things considered I am reluctant to buy something that I never seen or heard ($300 is still $300). Besides, the Matrix is pretty damn close, enough so that its size and weight really do come into play... so still thinking, playing, considering. (My lead singer thinks I am crazy!)
 
kmanick, seriously? Wow (they probably saw your post! lol)

Clarky, I actually own, and have been using, the Matrix 1000 for a couple months now, but by request of a friend I re-connected it to the Marshall JVM205 and must say, it was an eyebrow raising moment for everyone...
 
paulmapp8306 said:
A Marshall - or any valve power amp come to that - wont sound the same as the power section from the JVM. The JVMs section is tailored to the amps overall tone and response A separate power amp - by design - as to do that less because it doesn't know what it will be coupled with.
Click to expand...

Not trying to stir up anything, but as a JVM210 Owner and the reason I bought it in the 1st place to compliment my 1978 JMP 2203, this is directly from the guy that Designed the JVM, his name is Santiago.

The power amp stage of the JVMs is based on
the same as the one found in the JCM800 2203
and 1959 Superlead amplifiers and their 50W
cousins, responsible for the legendary Marshall
roar.
Click to expand...

I can't compare to the matrix, but I can tell you my 2011 JVM210H with Svetlana =C= EL34 power tubes sounds exactly the same as my 1978 JMP 2203 with the same tubes when running my AXE FX II into the power amp insert, using the same cab.
 
MarkShrader said:
Clarky, I actually own, and have been using, the Matrix 1000 for a couple months now, but by request of a friend I re-connected it to the Marshall JVM205 and must say, it was an eyebrow raising moment for everyone...
Click to expand...

I can only assume from this then that you are liking the coloration from the Marshall poweramp
here's a thought....
did you originally dial in your presets to the Marshall and then switch to the Matrix???
if so, then your presets are essentially 'tuned' to the Marshall
when you switch poweramp and / or monitors / cabs, you need to redial in to the new situation..
had your presets been dialled into the Matrix first, then maybe the Marshall wouldn't sound quite so nice when you jack into it..
in fact... even with FRFR, you can't just swap makes/models and assume everything should stay the same...
cos in truth, they ain't the same..
 
Severed, I'm not an expert on the older Marshalls so I accept your input at face value. The bottom line is I don't want to haul a big heavy JVM head around if I don't have to. What other Marshall offerings are there? I'm afraid none at this time. Heck even smaller options like the Fryette LXII power amp seemed to vanish from the face of the earth... I did write to them but as of yet no reply.

Clarky, you make a good point. No I have not really tried to dial in the sound on the Matrix. I assume you have (you are quite the surgeon when it comes to these details). So assuming you have dialed in the Matrix, are you having to dial per patch, or are you tweaking at a higher level - unit to unit, as in Axe to Matrix? I am aware of the Matrix Tweakistry video, is that the kind of dialing you are referring to?
 
MarkShrader said:
Severed, I'm not an expert on the older Marshalls so I accept your input at face value. The bottom line is I don't want to haul a big heavy JVM head around if I don't have to. What other Marshall offerings are there? I'm afraid none at this time. Heck even smaller options like the Fryette LXII power amp seemed to vanish from the face of the earth... I did write to them but as of yet no reply.
Click to expand...

yeah I hear ya. I packed around my JVM210H full stack (1960AV & BV) for a long time....whew, a lot of work carrying up and down stairs every weekend..., and still use a 1/2 stack (mixed GT12-75's and Marshall V30's (70 watt)) for my rig with the JMP Head for live and keep my JVM at home so I don't have to move them from home to rehearsal (I practice daily at rehearsal volume, and even more so since getting the Axe FX II 2 weeks ago and having to dial it all in fresh).

Anyways, I think the Matrix is probably your best bet then based on what other have stated.

I would have to hear one (Matrix) in person before changing it up, as I love my Marshall's, and my JMP has been my main workhorse for 20 years, and I got an FX loop modded in for the power amp input just for use with the Axe FX II and it destroys. I don't mind packing it for the tone it provides me.
 
MarkShrader said:
Clarky, you make a good point. No I have not really tried to dial in the sound on the Matrix. I assume you have (you are quite the surgeon when it comes to these details). So assuming you have dialed in the Matrix, are you having to dial per patch, or are you tweaking at a higher level - unit to unit, as in Axe to Matrix? I am aware of the Matrix Tweakistry video, is that the kind of dialing you are referring to?
Click to expand...

I have two banks of presets that are copies of each other
the first bank is for the studio so they are dialled in to my studio monitors for practice / low volume stuff
these tend to be 'richer'..

the second bank are dialled in for live [GT1000FX and a pair of Marshall 1960b cabs]
they started life as copies of the studio presets
my presets are in banks of 10 [on the MFC], so preset 1 [studio] is the same as preset 11 [live], 2 studio is the same as 12 live, 3 is the same as 13, etc etc
this means that my practice and live performance experience are identical..
I hire out a rehearsal studio for about 4 hours on my own
I take all my backline and an iPod [containing the band's live set] with a cable to connect the iPod to the PA
I select the 'live' bank and jack the backline up to about 50% of gig volume [so I don't got deaf right away]
I immediately hear all of the things that need fixing:
- too much bass
- too much top
- delay and reverb levels too high
- sometimes a little too much gain [more on the riffing tone than the soloing tone]

all of my presets have a GEQ as the final block [fixes the lo's and hi's]
all of my presets are variations on two basic preset types, so I note the blocks that have need changes and then save / link them to global blocks
then I got to the other presets and load / link the appropriate blocks to the globals [saves going through the pain of copying lots of parm changes all over the place]

so all I'm doing are basic EQ and fx refinements [no advanced parm changes cos it's generally not needed]

then I turn on the backing tracks and play along to look for:
- how well do I sit in the mix
- what the level differences are like with respect to my different tones [riffing, clean, soloing etc]
I make these EQ and level alterations

then I crank up to gig volume. I'm looking for:
- control over unwanted feedback [fix gate settings on the input of the grid]
- low end booming [may still need some correction]
- shrill / piercing highs [again, may need a correction]

I play along to the backing track at gig volume to verify everything is ok...
then I'm done..

the Matrix video is more about dialling in the GT800FX to get the valve 'feel'
the GT1000FX has this built in so it really don't need it
 
Severed said:
Not trying to stir up anything, but as a JVM210 Owner and the reason I bought it in the 1st place to compliment my 1978 JMP 2203, this is directly from the guy that Designed the JVM, his name is Santiago.



I can't compare to the matrix, but I can tell you my 2011 JVM210H with Svetlana =C= EL34 power tubes sounds exactly the same as my 1978 JMP 2203 with the same tubes when running my AXE FX II into the power amp insert, using the same cab.
Click to expand...

Absolutely - but thats not a valve power amp the OP was asking about. Power sections in amps are taylor'd/tuned to the pre sections to get the amp to sound/feel how the designer intends. In the case of the JVM thats the same as the 800 and superleads. Thats great, but thats not what a 9100 or 50/50 sounds like is what Im saying. Just because it says Marshall Power Amp on it doesnt mean it will sound like the JVM Power section.

If the 50/50 or 9100/9200 were the same power section as the JVM, then it would - and would work well for the AFX with Marshal sounds based around teh 800/superlead/JVM models. Its not though - so what the OP will get form the Marshall PA may not be what he hears from the JVM Power section - or what hes looking for. It may also be that the enhanced sound of a valve power amp is whats doing this. If the OP isnt using a Marshal 800/JVM/SL sim - then the patch via the JVM Power section may sound/feel better to him, but it may be further from the original amp (say a recto, or SLO) that the same patch via the MAtrix - or any other SS PA.
 
@Mark.

Do you have you amp sims on for the Matrix and off for the JVM Power section - or do you leave them on for both?

The trick to matching the two would be to get the power amp sim in the AFX to match the JVM, then compare matrix/sims on against JVM/Sims off - at the same volume. Thats the tricky part because even a very small difference even undetectable to the ear, will make a difference to how you perceive the tone. Almost invariably the louder one will sound better.
 
Clarky, your attention to detail is remarkable... and very much appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to describe your process.

PaulMapp, yes I do have sims on for Matrix and off for JVM. I am finding that the Matrix, while sounding great, makes things a tad more hard in terms of "corners" and "edges". The Matrix is slightly more difficult to play because it feels less forgiving. I know that is such a vague description but I'm not very EE technical so...

It's not so much an EQ thing, but maybe there are parameters I can tweak to help out. Clarky mentioned adding a GEQ block which I'll try, and the other is just plain re-calibrating my head! I am becoming more and more convinced the Matrix will work, I'm just sending out feelers to see if the forum gang has experienced the same thing when playing both their amp head power sections vs. Matrix SS units.

Thank again for the input.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom