Layout Link Hold issue. (solved)

[Paulinfl]

I have an issue that's possibly a bug and may be related to this acknowledged bug here. If so, ignore, or delete this and I'll look forward to the fix.

On any switch, if I have just a TAP assignment, specifically Channel Select with Smart Bypass in my case, and have no HOLD function assigned. The bug is that when a HOLD Layout Link is programmed to this same switch, it never fires the Layout Link hold event.

I also tried simply assigning layout select to the Hold function to the switch, and that does not fire either. This is why I then tried Layout Links for this approach. Bug?

 

[unix-guy]

To clarify, you have a switch with NO Hold function defined but you have a Layout Link assigned on the Hold?

If so, I think this is expected behavior as a Layout Link fires after the primary function. If there's no primary function, I'm not sure it is expected to fire.

@Admin M@ or @m_brown can probably confirm.

 

[Paulinfl]

To clarify, you have a switch with NO Hold function defined but you have a Layout Link assigned on the Hold?

If so, I think this is expected behavior as a Layout Link fires after the primary function. If there's no primary function, I'm not sure it is expected to fire.

@Admin M@ or @m_brown can probably confirm.

Yes. Switch has a Tap and no Hold. Then just adding layout link with hold function to the switch. I was hoping for a press and hold will fire the Tap at switch bottom and holding fires the layout link?

EDIT: I added pictures and my objective.





The reasoning is I have a "Home" performance layout that has a Delay Bypass, Drive Bypass, etc on it. When I press and hold one of those bypasses on my performance Layout, it takes me to a dedicated Delay Channel select Layout with all my delays right there to choose from on the fly. I have a "Home" button on that Delay page to take me back. That works and requires another dancing step. However I'd rather get taken back "Home". (Layout 1) in one press(and hold) when I choose a channel, and it could free up another switch I need for Home. So the logic was, Tap to choose the channel, and keep holding to go back home. A simple tap and don't hold would keep me there. Make sense?

 

[unix-guy]

So the logic was, Tap to choose the channel, and keep holding to go back home.

Not sure I'm following this part.

You'd still need 2 presses: a tap (and release) to choose the channel and a hold (and release) to change layout. Maybe that's what you're saying?

However, there's a much simpler approach if you don't need a Hold function: use a Layout Select function as the Hold function. No need for Layout Link

 

[Paulinfl]

Not sure I'm following this part.

You'd still need 2 presses: a tap (and release) to choose the channel and a hold (and release) to change layout. Maybe that's what you're saying?

However, there's a much simpler approach if you don't need a Hold function: use a Layout Select function as the Hold function. No need for Layout Link

Yes I realize that. It still require two presses. I was looking for one. If not, then oh well, but the manual and the software seem to indicate it’s possible so it leaves me wondering what is the official rule. There’s a few other acknowledged layout link bugs by the staff that are very similar, which prompted me to share this finding.No big deal, just a head scratcher, as intuitively it seems possible. Life goes on. Million ways to get it done.

 

[mr_fender]

Expected behavior. If no hold function is assigned, the hold timeout is not used at all and the tap function fires immediately on press. In other words, if no hold function is assigned, every press is treated like a tap and not a hold.

 

[chris]

Yes. Switch has a Tap and no Hold. Then just adding layout link with hold function to the switch. I was hoping for a press and hold will fire the Tap at switch bottom and holding fires the layout link?

EDIT: I added pictures and my objective.

View attachment 108561

View attachment 108562

The reasoning is I have a "Home" performance layout that has a Delay Bypass, Drive Bypass, etc on it. When I press and hold one of those bypasses on my performance Layout, it takes me to a dedicated Delay Channel select Layout with all my delays right there to choose from on the fly. I have a "Home" button on that Delay page to take me back. That works and requires another dancing step. However I'd rather get taken back "Home". (Layout 1) in one press(and hold) when I choose a channel, and it could free up another switch I need for Home. So the logic was, Tap to choose the channel, and keep holding to go back home. A simple tap and don't hold would keep me there. Make sense?

if it allowed you to press and hold and get both the Tap and Hold functions, then you could never just get the Hold function. how would it know if you're holding just for the hold, or holding for both the tap and hold?

that's why a Tap is a press and release, and a Hold is a press and hold.

there is no setting to get both a Tap and Hold from just one press/hold. it has to differentiate to give the 2 different results.

without a Hold function assigned, when you press the switch, it registers a Tap, and it thinks it's done. it won't further know you're still holding.

 

[Paulinfl]

Ugh now we are getting in the weeds of what I didn't intend to do. Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly, but it doesn't matter anymore. I perfectly understand the standard TAP/ HOLD actions and how they work. I have had all the FC series for a looong time now and gigged them many times. The way Layout Links are presented, is that they are independent of the other switch functions. I was hoping and assumed so. They are not as shown by my example. My bad, it's not a bug but as designed. All good.

 

[chris]

Ugh now we are getting in the weeds of what I didn't intend to do. Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly, but it doesn't matter anymore. I perfectly understand the standard TAP/ HOLD actions and how they work. I have had all the FC series for a looong time now and gigged them many times. The way Layout Links are presented, is that they are independent of the other switch functions. I was hoping and assumed so. They are not as shown by my example. My bad, it's not a bug but as designed. All good.

totally understand what you were going for, but yeah i see it presented:

Layout Links fire after the primary function they are assigned to ... the Layout Link always activates when the switch for its associated function is released.

from the footswitch functions guide. there's a current wish for another type of switch function, where you can hold and it does the Tap and the Hold function. if that gets implemented, your desired workflow would be possible.

 

[Paulinfl]

totally understand what you were going for, but yeah i see it presented:

Layout Links fire after the primary function they are assigned to ... the Layout Link always activates when the switch for its associated function is released.

from the footswitch functions guide. there's a current wish for another type of switch function, where you can hold and it does the Tap and the Hold function. if that gets implemented, your desired workflow would be possible.

Yeah, my misunderstanding of the design led me astray with a new layout design tweak I wanted which I schemed up based on some needs from my last jam. But to my defense in FM9 Edit, the way it's presented does not say you must have a primary function. Or it's not clear. It should maybe not allow a user to select the option if it can't be done. -again why I posted the images? I realize it's hard to build a UI for all scenarios though. No worries I'm off doing it differently now. Thanks for piping in

 

[ethomas1013]

Maybe I’m missing something. Why not just set your hold function to call the layout you want? No need for a layout link if you don’t have a hold function defined.

 

[chris]

Maybe I’m missing something. Why not just set your hold function to call the layout you want? No need for a layout link if you don’t have a hold function defined.

he wants it done with 1 button press, rather than change delay type, decide it's the right one, then press again to change layouts.

layout link can't be on the tap because sometimes he wants to stay on that delay layout, and other times he wants to change after choosing the delay.

for now, it has to be a separate button press for layout change.

 

[unix-guy]

Maybe I’m missing something. Why not just set your hold function to call the layout you want? No need for a layout link if you don’t have a hold function defined.

Already suggested

However, there's a much simpler approach if you don't need a Hold function: use a Layout Select function as the Hold function. No need for Layout Link

 

[Paulinfl]

Again, the simple approach is what I already do. I was wanting to try the approach Chris describes. It’s one less press or thought. Want to go home while selecting the delay, then keep your foot down. Want to stay and play with delays, tap it. Not that complicated. Not just for delays but many other layouts. May not be your style but it would be a definitly be a nice option and sort of describes the name ‘layout links’.

With that said. I’m good doing it the way I have been and you all probably do. It’s just another press and hold after the the tap to select, or tap a different home switch after. See the efficiency I was looking for though?

 

[Stringer76]

Again, the simple approach is what I already do. I was wanting to try the approach Chris describes. It’s one less press or thought. Want to go home while selecting the delay, then keep your foot down. Want to stay and play with delays, tap it. Not that complicated. Not just for delays but many other layouts. May not be your style but it would be a definitly be a nice option and sort of describes the name ‘layout links’.

With that said. I’m good doing it the way I have been and you all probably do. It’s just another press and hold after the the tap to select, or tap a different home switch after. See the efficiency I was looking for though?

I don’t have my gear in front of me, but have you tried putting the delay bypass as both the press and hold function?

 

[Paulinfl]

I don’t have my gear in front of me, but have you tried putting the delay bypass as both the press and hold function?

Great idea, and it works! This is a fine workaround technique for me and just seems to work with this method. Thank you all for the discussion! Problem solved for me.

 

[Paulinfl]

Wow! I have to say, for me, this is the most fluid layout switching has ever felt. If you have a performance layout you live on, and page to other effects with Channel Smart Bypass selections often, give it a try! It just feels 'right'. I use a delay layout, mod layout, drive & amp ctrl switch layout for on-the-fly sculpting. We play extended covers and also open jam a lot. So I am not locked into scenes much. Thanks again.

It ends up looking like this across the layout and of course, every delay switch here has a Layout Link HOLD set to the Home(1) layout. -many ways to bail back home in heat of battle:


My Home layout is just 2 scenes to revert them and then my favorite effect bypasses defaulting on the most common channel for each. I bounce to the dedicated layouts (by holding a bypass) to change things up for on-the-fly creativity. I get back home, now by the method we just figured out. I don't like scripts