It is still special playing through a 4x12

Johan Allard

Johan Allard

Power User
So I have another custom build going with Mick from Xitone and as part of that I'm going to use a Matrix GT1000fx (I will post pictures and a review when it's done). Since I don't actually own any real cabs any more I decided to bring the amp to rehearsal on Sunday and rent a Marshall 4x12 cab (no idea what speakers was in it), just to make sure that the amp worked properly. I've gotten so used to my Yamaha DXR10 which is small but definitely loud enough for all I need, and wow, that Matrix into Marshall cab sounded soo much bigger. I had a lot of fun until one song where I use a tone match as an acoustic simulator and it just sounded absolute crap through the Marshall cab, completely unusable. I switched to a completely clean preset instead but thought to myself, yeah, that's definitely one reason I still want to use FRFR, and I really wouldn't want to be lugging around a 4x12. And every so often, it is still good fun!
 
I have three Marshall cabs (all with different speakers) that I power with an Atomic Amps Reactor 50/50. I rotate them out whenever I am inspired to. I recently bought a Matrix FR212 and am very happy with it, also powered by the Atomic. That said, I agree- I love hearing the Axe through those 4x12s. And I don't even play very loud- what I would call loud bedroom volumes.

I'm sold on the FR212, but I am keeping my cabs.
 
Yeah, I like playing thru a Marshall 1960B w/75s and an AC-30/6tb 2x12 w/blues(gotta be careful with the Matrix and this one!)
Think I need to get Mesa and Fender cabs! (My wife's gonna kill me!)
 
Yeah when I heard what the Axe can do and was thinking of getting one, I had no intention at all of leaving my cab. I personally don't understand why everybody doesn't use them, but that's because I'm a big fan of using power amps and cabs. I could never be satisfied running my guitar through a powered PA or something like that. I need my balls big and on the ground facing me.
 
@ our rehearsing space I run the MATRIX 1000 paired in stereo with a Marshall JVM 4x12 (strait cab) – it sounds perfect!

I also have 2 XiTone’s and 2 NL212, I love them all.

However, I used to run my setup with 2 2x12 Carvin v30’s and also a 4x12 ENGL cab which I didn’t like, very harsh sound.

The JVM 4x12 is really nice, I like the punch and overall sound.


TM - mostly sounds crap on non frfr. That’s my experience.
 
I agree with the last comment and CBooth's too..

There will be times when you and your ears will want to have a slight 'break' from the FRFR-hooha. There's nothing wrong with this. Some of us are fortunate enough to have both a real cab/s and a decent FRFR setup. I've got the Friedman ASM and I've got a great valve head with an awesome 2x12 loaded with an ET65 and a Creamback 75. I rotate between FRFR and 'normal', so I always get the best of both worlds. I quite often surprise myself how good the axe sounds when I run it through the RETURN of my amp, everything just comes alive.

And last but not least, obviously your actual patches will play a big role in how good it sounds through your rigs.. Have fun either way, play around with both!!
 
Btw – I have also a small Carvin DCM200L and sometimes I plug my XL out1 to the MATRIX amp paired to the 2 x NL212 and out2 of the XL to the Carvin and the XiTone’s….leveling a mix between the 2 setups.

It sounds soooooo good!

But it’s just for fun and useless for live as I don’t play arenas (also I’m too old to carry that much of stuff to the gig).
 
FreeMind said:
I've made a poll on facebook whether people prefer FRFR or Guitar cabs or whatever. FRFR wins so far. I wonder why...
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The main reason would be flexibility if I'd guess. With FRFR you run Cab modelling in the Axe Fx so you can have a preset with a Fender Twin through a 1x10 cab and then switch to another preset running a Friedman BE through a 4x12 Marshall cab. With a regular cab, you're stuck with that Cab for all presets. And you'll have some special cases with things like Acoustic simulators that will sound horrid through a guitar cab. A FRFR is also usually much smaller so more convenient to handle. The only real drawback is that in my case a 1x10 FRFR will never sound as big as a 4x12 but except for the odd test it's just not worth it for me.
 
I definitely enjoy playing through 4X12's.
Mostly I'm running a direct line regardless, yet I use the 4X12's as monitors, hehe!!!
Seriously FUN and certainly not necessary, but so what?!?!?!
The Axe is great, and with the MFC and a couple pedals, it's still a quick setup even running my Matrix and a pair of 4X12's too. Nothing like a FULL STACK onstage, LOL.

Of course, this may not be practical for all venues, yet with the Axe I have options. LOVE IT!!!!
 
yep, nothing like the sound and feel of a big ol' 412 behind me. I tried FRFR for a while, but I definitely missed something in a rock setting. For ambient stuff, I do use FRFR
 
You guys are making it really hard for me to decide whether I should buy FRFR, or Matrix+Cab.... :D
Lately I've been leaning towards FRFR because it let's me amplify backing tracks and vocals too in case of need, and it's lighter. Atomic CLR or two seemed like a good choice... but this thread made me wonder again...
The thing I am going for is a Natural and Raw, in your face, guitar tone and FRFR might leave me lacking...?
 
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It doesn't hurt to own a powerful, relatively flat power amp, like the Matrix, which is also very lightweight and takes only 1 rack space! You can then be ready for either traditional guitar cabs or passive FRFR cabs. Plus, powered FRFR speakers always remain an option!
 
Johan Allard said:
The thing though is that we're not really comparing apples with apples.
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Honestly, I'm not trying to compare. It's just NOT apples to apples. The question for me is "do I enjopy having the 4X12's?" The answer is an easy YES!!!! Now, certainly I have used FRFR as well, K12 from QSC in my case. For convenience FRFR is "usually" easier to deal with, yet I just can't stop bringing in the 4X12's, LOL.

As far as I'm concerned, it's about having options. I like the options the Axe FX gives me.

Freemind...if you are bringing 2 CLR's, you're getting closer and closer to what it would take to bring a 4X12. No doubt you're gonna get nice tones from a CLR or 2 using the IR's from the Axe. I love the sounds the direct signal gets. I also get great tones from the pair of 4X12's I bring to gigs. They have wheels, it's really not too bad and a stack takes up "about" the same footprint as any other cab, just higher, not any wider.

Whatever you decide to do, you will always have the option to add the "other" in the future.
Thanks Cliff, for giving us so many options.
 
I love the Axe but still think that there are far to many Amps/Caps not sounding very good. It sounds if (many of them) only the Eq has been set differently. Hard to hear the signature difference between them. Especially the caps are really hard to find the "one" or "ones". 95% is only variyng in the eq expression. When this is said it could be me not capable of setting thing's right and that could be the problem with Axe in general. I tweak and tweak and can't hear s... after half hour and the next day it sounds different to me again starting to adjust again. Far to many factors going into the sound when you also have guitar, pickups, caps, amps to select in Axe lib. So I thought that and really good pre amp/amp would be easyier to get a good setting and easy to adjust on the fly. This is damn hard one the Axe if you don't know the effect of almost most parameters. But for peoble who likes to adjust forever, buying new caps, downloading new firmware in the seek of better sounding - that's also fun but not very produvtive I think.

So I went the Petrucci way having the basic sound (if one is not addicted to have 20 different basic sounding) coming from the Mesa setup (Triaxis, Mesa 2:90) and setting up a parrallel FX system having only the FX part from the Axe being digitized but leaving all the true signal from pre amp/master staying analouge. I feel the attack is much more aggressive and reacts faster. Takes up time to go through AD/DA converters and all the other digital stuff there is going on inside the Axe.

More in the clean section, I cannot get the rich sound (twang) out of my Fender Master built Strat (Jason Smith) as I can from a small Pandora rehearsel box. This is when using the Axe through the CLR's (FRFR) and Atomic 2x50 with Atomic passive reactors. All in all 4 caps driven from 3 amps. This beatiful sound never comes out of this extreme nice guitar and just wondering how much dammage there is done in this FRFR setup. I could have a shity guitar and in that combination the Axe could make it sound a hole lot better but not with very high end guitars. Kind of digitizing hell but agree - this is the best until now in this price level and still I use ALL the other effects but not the emulator anymore. This is done far better with traditional amps most of the time.
 
kavevester said:
I love the Axe but still think that there are far to many Amps/Caps not sounding very good.
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Caps = cabinets here, I'm guessing. Some cabs just don't sound very good with some amps, just like out here in meatspace.

kavevester said:
Kind of digitizing hell but agree - this is the best until now in this price level and still I use ALL the other effects but not the emulator anymore. This is done far better with traditional amps most of the time.
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I reject the assertion that there is any significant difference using the Axe II. Running the Axe in to a Matrix power amp and into a traditional cab is indistinguishable from running a tube amp into that same cab.

I ran some blind tests two weekends ago with a friend who is very amp-centric, and compared his tube amps to their Axe counterparts. I was able to dial the Axe so there was no distinguishable difference between the Axe and the amp. Zero. And it didn't take much tweaking. Couple settings here and there, twirl the BMT and -- boom! -- done.

I was able to copy some of his awesome effect pedal settings too. I got a fantastic vibe sound by copying one of his Foxrox pedals -- very very Jimi.
 
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