Input Trim - is this normal?

M

milesb

New Member
Hi All,

I've been consistently disappointed by all the presets and just couldn't get excited about my FM3. And then I tried the input trim and I got a glimpse of what this thing can do.

What I'm concerned about is that I'm currently dialling it up to about 2.2, which seems a lot when I hardly see anyone else even mentioning it.

I only have single coil guitars to hand right now, and they all sound similar through my current preset (6G4 into 6G4 Dynacabs, with a dash of spring reverb). I found a gorgeous example of someone playing the real thing at Emerald City Guitars and showing the amp settings, and I finally got close enough with my Tele. (Search YouTube for c9tUZsLp0Bg if you're interested).

So, is so much Input Trim reasonable? Is it pointing to something else going on?

(I have recently reset to factory, tried different cables, switched guitars...)

Cheers.
 
What’s your input pad set to? Maybe that’s not right. I can’t recall what it’s supposed to be and not at my unit right now. You shouldn’t need to boost the input trim. I set mine to what the manual said and haven’t touched it since. I rarely touch the trim.
 
Input Pad is zero. Just looked. It's one of the reasons I did a full factory reset (as per Cooper Carter instruction video). I had no idea what I'd messed with, so that seemed a good way to wipe the board clean and start again.
 
My input pad is set at 18db.

Edit: Looked at the manual and says keep closest to 0 db as possible. I don’t have any high output pickups and at 18db it’s quiet enough. So bring your pad up.
 
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You could try to find a preset that you think you know how it should sound, or assume people like Frank did not change much and give you the correct sound in one of the vids on his channel. After picking one you like that kinda matches your pickup, you could use that Global Trim or Gain to make your pickup/factory preset sound very similar to Frank's preset/pickup. (allow for some differences caused by different firmware, etc.)

If I'm right, after that, any preset should sound some form of awesome :)

https://www.youtube.com/@FrankSteffenMueller/videos

Just a suggestion -- I don't know everything about this.
 
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We recently discussed something similar, it’s better to turn the feedback or gain on the dynamics tab, to say the truth, you can actually feel some kind of increase in energy...
 
If it at all helps, many people are unhappy with the factory presets - I am not even a big fan of them. I find it's better to build your own from scratch to at least get off to a good start.
 
RifferMcDuck said:
If it at all helps, many people are unhappy with the factory presets - I am not even a big fan of them. I find it's better to build your own from scratch to at least get off to a good start.
Click to expand...
I'm a pretty critical type (yet w/o golden ears), but whenever I read this I suspect people have not studied up on the very basics. Even in the II almost every preset was already awesome, although I may not like the type.

It could also be that someone has "overly realistic" expectations, a terrible speaker system or setup, or that presets have indeed gotten worse (I suspect the contrary)... I've actually not gotten through them all yet. If they sound like sh*t it is when I'm using headphones.

I'd say the demos by Frank sound pretty great. Do you disagree?
 
Just saw you mentioning in another thread you only use headphones?

When I got the FM9T it was almost the first time I ever used headphones on a Fractal. I went through the first 50-100 presets or so and was extremely disappointed... but I would clearly blame this on using headphones and/or not having read up on some parameters that we didn't have in the II.

The people that do use proper speakers and are lucky, or set a few global parameters right, often claim I finally found the sounds I have always dreamed of!!! IMO, that should be so for most of us... if you realize what it is and that FRFR is not a cab.
 
Brewce said:
I'm a pretty critical type (yet w/o golden ears), but whenever I read this I suspect people have not studied up on the very basics. Even in the II almost every preset was already awesome, although I may not like the type.

It could also be that someone has "overly realistic" expectations, a terrible speaker system or setup, or that presets have indeed gotten worse (I suspect the contrary)... I've actually not gotten through them all yet. If they sound like sh*t it is when I'm using headphones.

I'd say the demos by Frank sound pretty great. Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

I’d definitely agree that it’s most likely the latter options. I was overall incredibly unhappy with the Axe FX 2 (and its presets) when I first got it several years ago, and I think it was just the unrealistic expectations and poor environment/gear.

However, even though I’m experienced with FAS stuff now and love it, I still don’t like necessarily love the stock presets, but I can easily make minor adjustments to make them each more palatable to my tastes if need be.
 
Brewce said:
Just saw you mentioning in another thread you only use headphones?

When I got the FM9T it was almost the first time I ever used headphones on a Fractal. I went through the first 50-100 presets or so and was extremely disappointed... but I would clearly blame this on using headphones and/or not having read up on some parameters that we didn't have in the II.

The people that do use proper speakers and are lucky, or set a few global parameters right, often claim I finally found the sounds I have always dreamed of!!! IMO, that should be so for most of us... if you realize what it is and that FRFR is not a cab.
Click to expand...

Yep, I use exclusively headphones now due to thin walls and angry neighbors. But I love the tones I get and am moving this year, so I have a lot to look forward to when I move back to monitors 😎
 
RifferMcDuck said:
I was overall incredibly unhappy with the Axe FX 2 (and its presets) when I first got it several years ago
Click to expand...
This may also be explained by the presets being gravely out of sync with the installed firmware.
IIRC, if you got that 2nd hand, the presets may be at least 3 major firmwares behind. A simple mismatch can greatly ruin things if you are not experienced (I wouldn't even call myself that re. tweaking).

RifferMcDuck said:
I still don’t like necessarily love the stock presets.
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That's fair of course. Some of the preset makers can have an ear that is not mine, and I don't necessarily love it all either, yet many jump out. But I would still say that objectively they are an awesome sounding start.

I did have the benefit of a CLR FRFR and especially on the Ultra EMGs made it sound much better to me.
One on the II that I found ridiculously good, for example, was the JVM Orange (IIRC).
 
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RifferMcDuck said:
Yep, I use exclusively headphones now due to thin walls and angry neighbors. But I love the tones I get and am moving this year, so I have a lot to look forward to when I move back to monitors 😎
Click to expand...
I'm in the same bad boat... I mean, I can play loud if I really want during the day (or do so on another floor), but there is still one person that is usually home next door, so it bugs me I am probably bugging them... Some communication re. when they leave the house could solve it though. Happy for you -- I dream of moving too in ways... :) At the same time, it could be way worse with neighbors all around me -- I'm still kinda lucky.
 
Brewce said:
This may also be explained by the presets being gravely out of sync with the installed firmware.
IIRC, if you got that 2nd hand, the presets may be at least 3 major firmwares behind. A simple mismatch can greatly ruin things if you are not experienced (I wouldn't evencall myself that re. tweaking).


That's fair of course. Some of the preset makers can have an ear that is not mine, and I don't necessarily love it all either, yet many jump out. But I would still say that objectively they are an awesome start.

I did have the benefit of a CLR FRFR and especially on the Ultra EMGs made it sound much better to me.
One on the II that I found ridiculously good, for example, was the JVM Orange (IIRC).
Click to expand...
It wasn’t just the presets on the 2, I didn’t like any tones, no matter what. But again I think it was just weird expectations of what it was “supposed” to sound like.

I think for me it was that I had never actually heard an isolated mic’d up amp before, and that can be jarring for some players if they’re used to AITR.
 
nothing wrong with playing around with the input trim, in essence it's like boosting the guitar signal going into the amp (from memory around 2.2 is like adding a 6-7 db boost)

single coil/low output guitars into most real world amps enjoy more gain/volume /level, and really come to life that way, it's not dissimilar in the fractal world and that's why you have more options to do that

i usually use a filter block as a clean boost at the front of presets where I'm using my single coil guitars, regardless of the amp, you can also use a neutral preamp boost within the amp block

I'm not sure what style of music you play but nothing wrong with the fact that your guitars like/need a bit more boosting/level for stuff to come to life, the options are there to do it, always best to dial in your tones with your own presets

I've got various preset builds on my channel if you feel like checking some of those out, on all of the ones I've done with my telecaster there's always a 6db filter block as a clean boost on there as an example
 
I think I remember Cliff saying something along the lines that 0.8 on the input trim was like using the low input of an amp, and around 1.5 was like using the high input of an amp, back in the Axe FX II days. Since I normally use the high input on an amp with hi/lo inputs, me boosting the input trim up between 1 and 2 is pretty common.
 
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