Help with the FR-12 crossover mod.

[WKSmith]

The difference to listen for is 2.5- 3.5kHz way up high in the pick attack (chirp) range.

One is modded and one is stock (or one is stock and one is modded ) 2 cloned samples repeated of each. Cheap condenser mic and cheap interface.

Tracked in reaper. The reference track was played back through the FR12 stock and modded. And simultaneously recorded into separate tracks.

No visual bias, just pics of the critters.

The mod details and more discussion in the FR- mods thread.

Thanks!!!

 

[WKSmith]

My wife says 2 is tinny(er)

My 12 yr old likes 2 better, but that's his cat so there is a visual bias

I think 2 is more detailed and cuts through better.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Kitteh!

 

[WKSmith]

Kitteh!

Meow!

 

[Piing]

ACAB

 

[WKSmith]

ACAB

Abacab

 

[WKSmith]

My vote is cast, but regardless, it seems like the folks who designed the crossover point don‘t understand the basics. I am a fan of the correct crossover design.

Me too
But that error may be a small part of the magic.

Btw... I fixed the crossover notch.
Yellow plot is tuned. Blue is stock
That's what we are hearing




Spice was right.


Stock


Tuned

 

[Deadpool_25]

I voted 2 but honestly they're so close that I don't have much preference. I actually felt like maybe 2 had a little less high end. Then listening again I'm not even sure I hear a difference lol. Stupid ears.

 

[WKSmith]

I voted 2 but honestly they're so close that I don't have much preference. I actually felt like maybe 2 had a little less high end. Then listening again I'm not even sure I hear a difference lol. Stupid ears.

They are close. And it's a scratch recording with lots of ambient hiss

 

[200man]

The difference to listen for is 3.5kHz way up high in the pick attack (chirp) range.

One is modded and one is stock (or one is stock and one is modded ) 2 cloned samples repeated of each. Cheap condenser mic and cheap interface.

Tracked in reaper. The reference track was played back through the FR12 stock and modded. And simultaneously recorded into separate tracks.

No visual bias, just pics of the critters.

The mod details and more discussion in the FR- mods thread.

Thanks!!!

I took two measurements with a mic stuck in the tweeter and the the mic right on the speaker.

 

[jellodog]

2 is definitely more detailed to my admittedly imperfect ears.

I voted for 2 as the overall better response; however the notch in 1 brings a softness to the tone which I could imagine would be desirable to some.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Me too
But that error may be a small part of the magic.

Btw... I fixed the crossover notch.
Yellow plot is tuned. Blue is stock
That's what we are hearing


View attachment 128810

Spice was right.

View attachment 128813
Stock

View attachment 128815
Tuned

Eventually we'll hear which one of these is 1 and which is 2, I presume....

 

[frankencat]

I like 1 through my Adam A7's which I am very used to listening on. 2 has more presence in the highs but 1 is smoother and more natural and probably sounds better at volume.

 

[warlockII]

It's hard to "just" listen to the high end as the difference in response changes the feel of the mids and low end My ears say that 2 is "clearer" than 1 in the top end. I'm very interested to see which is which. I'm using Blue headphones after an evening at a club.

 

[pauly]

2 is “sweeter” to me . Crossover point should be dictated by the drivers, and cab parameters in play. Is that the case?

 

[rickboot]

i don’t know which is better because I don’t know what the preset is supposed to sound like with that technique, guitar and preset. I am for whichever is more flatter response. If I want a softer response I’ll dial my preset that way.

 

[WKSmith]

Thanks for lending me your ears! I will leave this poll running today too.

I am sure even with my quick and dirty recording ... most of you have already figured it out.

1 is the stock setting with the notch
2 is the slightly flatter modded setting

So far the factory setting with the notch is favored 5 to 3 with 1 hearing no difference. 5 to 4 ..if I count my vote.


The mod is just 2 capacitor value changes. It raises the crossover freq for the 12" driver higher by a tiny bit and leaves the horn hi-pass alone.

 

[marsonic]

I think either is workable. I think the pick attack detail in #2 would be slightly easier to get the sound you wanted with right hand technique. But, it's not a deal-breaker either way.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

My wife says 2 is tinny(er)

My 12 yr old likes 2 better, but that's his cat so there is a visual bias

I think 2 is more detailed and cuts through better.

Your wife is probably pissed because you painted numbers on the floor and wall.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I voted for #2. I have my Ollo S5X headphones on and there's a clarity to the leading edge of picked notes in the first selection that is pleasing. It makes the cleans sound like they're well miked and engineered.

In the second selection I initially liked #1 because it had a hint of Eric Johnson's sound with the highs rolled off, but then after listening to #2 it brought out the tone in those highs, the distortion wasn't muted, nor was it too sharp or cutting, it had a musicality to it. And I'd rather have the speaker represent it openly and clearly than have to try boosting the EQ for that frequency range in the modeler and push it through the speaker's electronics. Basically, I want the cleanest and clearest sound from the speaker so it's an accurate representation of the modeler's sound.

The work you're doing on the crossover is good too. The more accurate the speaker and cabinet and electronics are, the better off we are.

Now, to convince Fender they stepped on their peckers and need to adopt your design.