Help with preset - Direct to PA, cab, FX

[Shon Kornfeld]

Hey guys! I know we've got some killer preset makers here, so I could use a little help with mine. I pretty much run 1 preset using 2 amps, one at a time. My preset and gain staging have been dialed in for recording, but now im hitting the stage. I'll be going to a power amp and speaker cab onstage, as well as direct to PA.

The preset is 2 amps (clean and dirty) feeding a Mixer block, which per scene, is the "switcher" between the 2. From there it hits a cab block, followed by effects. I prefer the cab before the effects.

Now, ive added a FXL block to feed my onstage power amp/cab, and I want the effects as well... however, I do not want the cab block going to the power amp/cab. I know this box is pretty powerful in the routing dept, but im kinda struggling. Obviously I can run totally separate chains with duplicate effects, but that seems silly. Any thoughts/suggestions/help is much appreciated!

 

[Funeral]

We really need a global cab sim bypass option for output 2.
You could add the effects again for the FX Loop Block but then you are basically forced to either reprogramming your floor controller, use scenes, or get creative with modifiers and external controllers just to turn two sets of effects on and off.
Seems like a few options are lost when running this way.
A global cab sim bypass on output 2 would make this whole process easier.

 

[philipacamaniac]

Just put the cab block and the FX Loop block at the very end of the chain. Then your virtual path will match your physical path. Since you only have a single cab on stage, you should probably also send the audience a mono feed.

 

[Funeral]

Just put the cab block and the FX Loop block at the very end of the chain. Then your virtual path will match your physical path. Since you only have a single cab on stage, you should probably also send the audience a mono feed.

Some people don't like the sound an IR has on the effects. Also means if you dialed the effects in perfectly, they now will have to be adjusted.
Not optimal honestly.

 

[philipacamaniac]

Some people don't like the sound an IR has on the effects. Also means if you dialed the effects in perfectly, they now will have to be adjusted.
Not optimal honestly.

I don't disagree, but it's the easiest available option. Then again, cab block location won't make any difference at all if all the post effects are linear (reverb, delay, etc).

 

[cowmaster39]

Some people don't like the sound an IR has on the effects. Also means if you dialed the effects in perfectly, they now will have to be adjusted.
Not optimal honestly.

I remember reading something on this forum a long time ago about this. If I recall correctly, there's not a measurable difference between using effects pre cab vs post cab in the Axe except for in a couple of very specific scenarios. Chris@AxeFxTutorials may be able to elaborate on what these scenarios are.

I've played with moving the cab block pre or post effects when I was building my main patch and I couldn't notice a difference. My post-amp effects are chorus, delay, reverb, multidelay, and pitch.

I have my cab block at the very end of the chain. I run the FX loop (for output 2) off of the signal at the end of the chain, right before the cab block. I get all of the effects coming through my real cab, and it sounds great both out of the cab and direct to FOH.

 

[Funeral]

I just did an A/B test with a looper block in both presets and I'm hearing a difference in my delay and reverb as well as over all tone/gain structure. It's slight, but its there.
Pretty sure it's not placebo, I'm clearly hearing it.

 

[chris]

I just did an A/B test with a looper block in both presets and I'm hearing a difference in my delay and reverb as well as over all tone/gain structure. It's slight, but its there.
Pretty sure it's not placebo, I'm clearly hearing it.

if your delay and reverb are stereo, you need to use a Stereo cab block. a mono cab block will collapse everything before it to Mono, which is the #1 "cab after effects sounds bad" reason. basically i'd suggest using a Stereo Cab block for the cab last technique just in case anything is stereo before it.

also if your Motor Drive is turned up in the cab block, there can be a tone change.

 

[Funeral]

The preset is a duplicate I copied just for this example. Everything is mono. Looper is set to mono.
No motor drive.
None of what you listed is set wrong/weird.
Just try it.
Also try with all delay and reverb in parallel.
I could just be deaf.

 

[Bakerman]

The preset is a duplicate I copied just for this example. Everything is mono. Looper is set to mono.
No motor drive.
None of what you listed is set wrong/weird.
Just try it.
Also try with all delay and reverb in parallel.
I could just be deaf.

Most or all reverb types other than spring sum to mono and generate a stereo output, regardless of input signal. You might be noticing reverb collapsing to mono. This is one reason to use a stereo cab when cab is last. Without seeing the presets it's hard to guess what else might be happening.

 

[Moke]

The OP's physical cab and any EQ (linear or non-linear) it imparts will be post effects anyway........just like any typical live guitar rig?..........So seems like apples to (virtual) apples to me....

 

[vangrieg]

The OP's physical cab and any EQ (linear or non-linear) it imparts will be post effects anyway...

Well, there's an onstage cab and signal going direct to FOH. I don't know about the OP, but I use a similar setup, and for me whatever comes from the onstage cab doesn't have to be absolutely accurate, it's just for monitoring pirposes, acoustic feedback and that "feel". If something's collapsed, to hell with it. My main signal chain is direct, nothing should collapse there.