Guthrie Govan With The Axe FX III

Just curious what makes you think that.
Obviously he's worked hard, that's pretty clear, but the not gifted part less so, to me.

Agreed, the huge respect he has from other players suggests there's plenty of "gift" there too
So, what exactly defines "gifted"?

Certain things may come more naturally to some than others... Either due to mental or physical characteristics (or both). But hard work and practice can achieve the same results, I think.

Guthrie started playing very young, like 3 or 4...

I think when you start that young it's just absorbed like learning to speak another language. Do we called fully bilingual adults "gifted"?

I mean, he's insanely good technically and is in my opinion amazingly musical even in full on shred mode.

His ear and ability translate what he hears is crazy. I was in a presentation he was doing at the G4 Experience back in 2015, at which time we were seated outside and he was setup in a gazebo.

A bird landed nearby and chirped. Within less than a second, he played that chirp right back with no apparent thought.

Later in the same session, an emergency vehicle drove past on the nearby road with the sirens on. Same thing - sirens from the guitar within a second or two.
 
So, what exactly defines "gifted"?

Certain things may come more naturally to some than others... Either due to mental or physical characteristics (or both). But hard work and practice can achieve the same results, I think.

Guthrie started playing very young, like 3 or 4...

I think when you start that young it's just absorbed like learning to speak another language. Do we called fully bilingual adults "gifted"?

I mean, he's insanely good technically and is in my opinion amazingly musical even in full on shred mode.

His ear and ability translate what he hears is crazy. I was in a presentation he was doing at the G4 Experience back in 2015, at which time we were seated outside and he was setup in a gazebo.

A bird landed nearby and chirped. Within less than a second, he played that chirp right back with no apparent thought.

Later in the same session, an emergency vehicle drove past on the nearby road with the sirens on. Same thing - sirens from the guitar within a second or two.

Good point. I guess as with most things in music it's subjective and there's probably no right answer....

Are you suggesting that he isn't gifted, but rather has been playing so long that it's inevitable he's as good as he is? Could we group the likes of Satriani, Vai etc in that category as they've put so many thousands of hours in on the guitar? To me Satriani would be the most "gifted" of the three as to my ears he has more to "say" on the guitar with beautiful, catchy melodies that appeal to my ear, but of course there are many who would disagree and prefer the music of the others

Then there's someone like Gilmour whose playing as nowhere near as technical, but more powerful than any of those players - but again that's to my ears

What would you say defines gifted in guitar playing terms and who would you put in that bracket?

I've seen the videos of Guthrie in the gazebo - must have been amazing to be there
 
Good point. I guess as with most things in music it's subjective and there's probably no right answer....
I agree... There's also no "best". It's all art, after all and comes down to taste. :)
Are you suggesting that he isn't gifted, but rather has been playing so long that it's inevitable he's as good as he is? Could we group the likes of Satriani, Vai etc in that category as they've put so many thousands of hours in on the guitar? To me Satriani would be the most "gifted" of the three as to my ears he has more to "say" on the guitar with beautiful, catchy melodies that appeal to my ear, but of course there are many who would disagree and prefer the music of the others
All 3 of those guys plus Eric Johnson are probably my top 4 favorites.

I think it's really just about putting in the work and being inspired, dedicated and passionate about music.

All of them have the ability to write and play amazing melodies. I think Satch might be the best at crafting "every man" melodies - those that are most appealing to musicians and average listeners (at least his earlier material).

Or maybe he was intentionally focused on doing that where Guthrie or Vai might not?

I personally always play very melodically. I really can't NOT do it... It's just how my musical ear works and it's been that way as long as I can remember.

I recently read an older interview with Vai where they asked him if he still plays 12+ hours a day and he said "no".

However, he then said he spent 2 weeks, 14 hours a day working on the technique to play a 4 bar section of Candle Power!

Then there's someone like Gilmour whose playing as nowhere near as technical, but more powerful than any of those players - but again that's to my ears
What I refer to as "The Three T's": Timing, Tone, Touch!

He can emote like a mother fucker!

But so can the others... Though they often choose not to focus on that.

For the Love of God is (to me) the most emotional piece of instrumental guitar music I have ever heard. It always moves me... And yet there is crazy, shredding throughout. But the tension and release, and the sheer intensity just does something for me.

What would you say defines gifted in guitar playing terms and who would you put in that bracket?
I'm not sure except maybe those true savants... And even then, is it a gift or just that their brains are different?
I've seen the videos of Guthrie in the gazebo - must have been amazing to be there
It was!

And seeing The Aristocrats and Animals as Leaders plus Satch up close and personal multiple times, asking questions and hearing their insights and processes was so cool!

And having Guthrie at our breakfast table one morning was a nice bonus! He's a very humble and down to earth guy.
 
Gotta love Guthrie! Man i really want one of those japanese built signatures of his. Since we're sharing our favorite GG moments, here's one of mine!
Also I wish we could get a Victory Countess mk2 in the Axe Fx.
 
Last edited:
I don't think you get to that level of musicianship without a good bit of natural ability. That is not to discount his hard work and dedication to the craft. Natural ability alone gets you nowhere without putting in the work to learn the theory, develop the muscle memory, and learn how to dial in cool tones. I can confidently say that I could never achieve his level of musical creativity even if I had two lifetimes to practice and catch up in the technical skill department. Guthrie is a musical genius IMO. Given his eloquence with words, I'd venture to say that he's a genius by traditional measurements as well.
 
if you had the tuner on the heel down wouldnt that cut out so you couldnt see your scenes or persets?
Right, so when I play at church it's not advantageous to use this feature...I really depend on song/scene names for those gigs, but for metal gigs it'd be great.
 
Just curious what makes you think that.
Obviously he's worked hard, that's pretty clear, but the not gifted part less so, to me.
Gifted is just a lazy way of describing someone who became obsessed with the instrument during their learning aptitude years . They clearly made the most of their obsession by constantly challenging themselves and adopted a practice regime that was effective with self analysis, ear training and promotion of all the skills necessary to become a virtuoso . Physical attributes are more about things that stop you from realising you goals . "Gifted"" Talented" are insults to the people that they are used about . It suggests that somehow it was easy for them to realise their skill. There is no evidence of heredity in virtuoso ability and there is documented evidence that even Mozart found this term to be a gross insult. Luck does play a part in as much as the individual needs the opportunity and the exposure to something they personally find inspirational to get started . But absolutely no "gift" where even from and by what method??
 
Yes, He can and is... Of course, there is also hard work involved. :)


Exactly.
Utter rubbish, there is no such thing as natural ability on a man made instrument that has only been around a very short time in evolutionary terms. There is absolutely no evidence of heredity in musical virtuosity in ANY instrument let alone one that doesn't even have a formal learning structure.
 
I wonder how Guthrie feels about his guitar tone when working with such dense music. At times he has to be at the forefront of the music like in the video provided below; at other times, he has to meld into the sonic fabric with the other instruments and let another soloist shine. There are so many frequencies being eaten up where the guitar likes to occupy, that I can imagine it being a really interesting challenge to get into a comfort zone as a guitarist while also having to fit into a group that large. Fortunately, he is using the Axe III and has a vast array of tone shaping tools to get him there.
 
Gifted is just a lazy way of describing someone who became obsessed with the instrument during their learning aptitude years . They clearly made the most of their obsession by constantly challenging themselves and adopted a practice regime that was effective with self analysis, ear training and promotion of all the skills necessary to become a virtuoso . Physical attributes are more about things that stop you from realising you goals . "Gifted"" Talented" are insults to the people that they are used about . It suggests that somehow it was easy for them to realise their skill. There is no evidence of heredity in virtuoso ability and there is documented evidence that even Mozart found this term to be a gross insult. Luck does play a part in as much as the individual needs the opportunity and the exposure to something they personally find inspirational to get started . But absolutely no "gift" where even from and by what method??
Hmmm, the same words can have really different associations for different people I guess.

I never thought of "gifted" as having to do with anything inherited genetically. Seems to me more like a deep match between a person's inner self and some area of life or art, that draws them to it, and gives them intuitive insight into it.

Maybe the "gift" is just early attraction that gets them paying attention, and gives them a head start on putting in the work to get good.

Still, it does seem to me that some people have a bit of a magic connection, to an instrument, or music in general, or math, or writing, etc.

In any case I certainly don't think the less of a person because of that, quite the opposite.
 
I had never heard him before, but I finally listened to that Ner Ner then the Hans Zimmer clip. What a monster. I have this long of discographies I mean to experience, and he’s been on there for a while. His playing seems to have a transcendent quality; very inspiring.
 
I had never heard him before, but I finally listened to that Ner Ner then the Hans Zimmer clip. What a monster. I have this long of discographies I mean to experience, and he’s been on there for a while. His playing seems to have a transcendent quality; very inspiring.
His instrumental album Erotic Cakes is excellent, unfortunately he's decided it's not really what he wants to do.

The Aristocrats are so good but definitely not everyone's tastes...

His playing (along with Marco Minneman and Nick Beggs) on Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused to Sing is really, really good. They also all played on Hand. Cannot. Erase. The solo on Regret #9 is a fan favorite!
 
Oh, so all it takes, to eventually be able to write lyrics like Neil Peart is just lots of hard work? Nah. There's more to it than that.

People have natural abilities, things they are born with to a higher degree than others. Some have a natural aptitude for math and numbers, for example; Others, arts and things of that nature. Still others are more athletic. And on and on. I don't care how much you work at it, very, very few people will ever be able to throw a 95mph fastball! Sure, the greats have developed their talents to an extremely high level, that had they not done so, we'd have never heard of them. But some comments here make it sound like anyone can do anything they want, at an extremely high level, if they start early enough, and just work hard at it. I respectfully call bullshit on that oversimplification. I like @Dave Merrill's take on it.
 
Oh, so all it takes, to eventually be able to write lyrics like Neil Peart is just lots of hard work? Nah. There's more to it than that.

People have natural abilities, things they are born with to a higher degree than others. Some have a natural aptitude for math and numbers, for example; Others, arts and things of that nature. Still others are more athletic. And on and on. I don't care how much you work at it, very, very few people will ever be able to throw a 95mph fastball! Sure, the greats have developed their talents to an extremely high level, that had they not done so, we'd have never heard of them. But some comments here make it sound like anyone can do anything they want, at an extremely high level, if they start early enough, and just work hard at it. I respectfully call bullshit on that oversimplification. I like @Dave Merrill's take on it.
Anyone that's ever raised multiple children understands this. Natural aptitude and natural ability ABSOLUTELY exist... physically, mentally, and ESPECIALLY on a creative level. Not everyone is wired or built the same. Some people have natural beauty.
Hard work will make a talented person great. However, if you ain't got it...you just ain't got it and no matter how hard you work at it you will never be great...not saying you won't be proficient eventually. You might even get a participation trophy.
Gary Coleman could never be a pro basketball player
Steve-O will never be able to sing like Steve Perry
Al Sharpton will never be an Albert Einstein


Society has recognized this for thousands of years. It's just the way it is.
 
Last edited:
His instrumental album Erotic Cakes is excellent, unfortunately he's decided it's not really what he wants to do.

The Aristocrats are so good but definitely not everyone's tastes...

His playing (along with Marco Minneman and Nick Beggs) on Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused to Sing is really, really good. They also all played on Hand. Cannot. Erase. The solo on Regret #9 is a fan favorite!

I’ll definitely check out his entire discography, but I take note of these recommendations. I’m bookmarking this.
 
Totally get Andy eagles point , yes people are born with a level of natural aptitude at certain things and maybe are lacking in other things BUT it is no coincidence that the real top guys in any discipline go above and beyond with the hours and discipline to take things to that level , and yes I totally get how u can view people saying u r gifted as an insult if u have worked thousands of hours at it and made huge sacrifices to get there , if I had done that and people went ‘oh lucky him he is so naturally talented and gifted ‘ I would be like ‘ ok Man do u know how hard I have worked ?’
First point is the word ‘gift ‘ is a word used for something someone gets free eg like a Christmas present etc , not really the right word to use for an art that requires thousands of hours to get good at , no one gets good at guitar playing for free ,as we all know from the very start of when we did it , u have to apply yourself , yes u might have a good ear or a great memory , both of which make learning music a lot easier than if u started basically tone deaf and with memory like a sieve
So yes there is a level of natural ability but what does make the cream rise to the very top is the absolute dedication to their craft and on top of that if they are clever enough to figure out the best way to apply all those hours that they are prepared to put in to maximise the outcome , that makes them an even better learning machine
If u haven’t heard of the 10, 000 hour rule , look it up , Malcom gladwell has done an excellent pop pyshcology job on explaining and proving it in real life cases , like the Beatles in Germany getting tight playing solid day after day , bill gates etc etc , the human Brain and body is awesome at getting good at things directly relatable to time spent doing it
Every autobiog book I have read about top athletes / musicans/ business people , the one thing that stands them apart from the masses is time dedicated and ambition to do to. Most of us have balanced lives split across work/family/hobbies etc , and it’s a good balance , also I think a healthy balance , most of these ‘on the cusp’ guys are almost autistic at the levels they can work too on ONE thing , and indeed a lot of the time I don’t think that’s actually that healthy to a ‘rounded’ life to be honest
Eddie van Halen , still sitting on the end of his bed in the same place playing getting guitar when Alex was out partying , people like sammy saying he always has a guitar round his neck .Vito Bratta , saying he would play 8 hours go out and play a show , and then come back and do another 3 hours of practice , Clapton / Slash .. all the stories are the same , endless playing and Practice NOT a gift from god
Ronaldo the footballer , works harder than anyone else , nadal the tennis player all the same story , they know to be the best then they have to put in more hours and practise more Intelligentley than the next guy
So yes u maybe ‘gifted’ a good hand as far as basic fundamentals are but 90% of how far u can go is down to training the Brain and body through hours of application
I always feel strongly on this as when I started playing guitar , I did believe that people had natural gifts, I thought I was just crap at it as I was not ‘gifted ‘ with that talent , something my parents also reinforced in me , they didn’t encourage me , just kept saying maybe it wasn’t for me , try something else your good footballer etc , this was also reinforced by reading the old guitar mags , it always seemed then that it was cool to say u never practised , guitar playing came easy, it etc etc , no one really wanted to admit to the ‘geekiness ‘ of spending hours and hours practising etc
So really as a teenager instead of applying myself just thought I was crap because I didn’t have the gift as it were
Fast forward or mid 30’s and all the life lessons leant along the way and I realised with guitar I had just not bothered trying as much as I should .. I started to want to learn , the better I got , the more I am encouraged to play and the better I feel about my skill , but in my case , never had a good ear to start, the more I put in the more I get out , still limited by time constraints due to other aspects in life , but it’s not rocket science or a mystery thing to me at all anymore .. time in = results and improvement
So as I said really get Andy’s point ,we have had jams at home where people of gone ‘man your so talented at guitar , wish I was that gifted and could do that ‘ and yea it’s a compliment on one way , but yes part of me wants to go ‘ you know how much I have to play and practice to do that ?’ It’s not a gift it’s work .. ask my wife ‘yawn all he does is play his guitar yawn ‘ etc
The one massive gift I have been born with is the ability to comprehend the direct correlation between time spent at something and the rewards that brings , whatever it might be in life , forget gift and talent , hours work applied intelligently to a task = reward

Always makes me laugh at work then vastly overweight people go ‘ oh i cannot lose weight , faulty genes or something , I just look at a lettuce leaf and put on pounds ‘
Yes people are born with a genetic code for such things , but every body is capable of a body weight they so wish dependent upon effort they put in to achieving that , it’s just harder for some than others , some need more work and more will power , same with guitar playing .. most peoples ability level they will get to is directly governed by the ambition and time they have to apply to it ,NOT by any free gift
 
You mentioned The Beatles - they didn't need to put 10,000 hours in to be able to write and play some of the most popular songs of all time though did they? Lennon & McCartney churned out memorable song after memorable song. Where did that come from? You or I could play the same selection of basic chords, but would we come up with those catchy melodies?

Same with the virtuoso players - there are loads of players on YouTube who have put in the hours and have the chops of Vai, Satriani, Eddie etc but how many of them can write something like For The Love Of God, Flying In A Blue Dream or Eruption?

For me that's where aptitude, gift or whatever you want to call it comes in - what can 2 people with 10,000 of practice under their belts, or the same technical ability do with it? Some will sound like a video game, some will come up with mediocre songs, but some will create beautiful music that millions of people can relate to.

Perhaps when discussing something like music, creativity is a better word than gift?
 
Back
Top Bottom