Guitar cabinet questions

[Brian Dean-O]

Anyone have any experience to share as far as building a guitar cab goes?
I have an SD Powerstage 200 arriving tomorrow for my FM3 and I have a friend with an old Ampeg 4x12 I could buy for $200.
I’m weighing in my mind options of either
1. Buying that
2. Buying a nice 1x12 (being that if it’s something nice I’d probably not be able to afford anything bigger than 1x12 but also the smaller size would be a huge plus in my book I shudder to think about lugging around a 4x12 cab) or
3. Having my dad help me build a cabinet and then just buy really nice speaker/s for it.
(Feel free to weigh in on any of those 3 options if you like even though I’m specifically asking about making one I’d still be interested in whatever y’all think about any of the three vs the others)
As far as making one goes I guess birch is the standard for most cabs right? What about other woods? Anything else I should be keeping in mind about all this?
If what I’m using matters in what advice you may have then my guitar is a Schecter USA Custom Shop KM7 Mkiii but I got rid of the active electronics and pickups and put in passive pickups and electronics and installed a tone knob. The pickups are not vintage output or high output, I would say moderate output.
My rig is an FM3 and aside from my studio monitors at home or running direct to FOH when playing at church or other venues I also have a Headrush 112 I’ve been using for on the go FRFR when needed like jamming with friends and I will likely pair that with the Powerstage and whatever cabinet I get for best of both worlds when in a position to do so.
I play a wide range of music. Rock, Metal, Blues and Worship though mainly in case that matters which I assume it probably does. I use 1987 Clean, Later Eddie, 6160s, EJ Clean, DizzyVH4 and a few other factory presets mainly for now so I’d like the cabinet to be able to do those all well if that’s physically possible (which while we’re on the subject if you want to add input on speaker choice based on those kinds of tones then please do so).
Thanks for any help!

 

[mr_fender]

Speaker cabinet design is a science all its own. It depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve. FRFR cabs will take a very careful design to get a flat response while traditional guitar cabs are a bit more forgiving. The size and shape of the cab directly affects the final response of the speaker. Speaker selection is a huge part of it. Your best bet would be to find an existing cab you like the sound of and copy its design as closely as possible. Randomly picking a speaker and cab size/shape to put together is unlikely to give you the result you might expect, especially if you are trying to go for anything close to a flat response. Might sound great, but it might sound terrible. There's a ton of factors involved.

As far as construction goes, plywood is probably the most common for modern guitar cabs, usually 5/8" or 3/4" thick. Cheaper cabs might use chipboard or particle board. MDF is very dense and heavy and more prone to water damage so it's probably not a great choice for a cab you'll travel a lot with. Early combo cabs were often solid wood like pine, but that's more rare these days unless it's a custom figured wood cab like those from Mesa Boogie or a recreation of a vintage design like Tweed amp clones and such. Most covered production cabs use finger joints for the box corners while the fancy solid wood cabs use dovetail joints. Doweled and glued butt or lap joints can also be quite strong if done correctly. If you dig around online you can find plans for various cab designs.

Coverings like tolex or tweed are definitely doable but can take a little patience and practice to do well. You can also use roll-on truck bed liner for a tough outer coating too.

It can be a fun project to tackle if you're the DIY type, but don't expect to save a bunch of money if you're buying everything from scratch, especially when factoring in tools and your time. Higher volume builders have economies of scale to help keep their prices low. It's hard to compete with that for a one off build.

 

[skolacki]

I moved from a Headrush 112 to a Celestion F12. There is a cabinet design posted by Celestion that isn’t too tough to build. Mine is based off that design and I like it over the Headrush. I concur with @mr_fender that you might not save much. But given the cost of quality FRFR cabs, you will still save some money. I don’t think you would want to put 4 of those in the Ampeg cab. You could, but that’s over $800 in speakers. For that money I’d buy the EV PXM-12MP. Next year I’ll be building a DIY powered 112 along the lines of the EV. 1/2 ply, light carry, and will use the same amp that’s used in the Power-stage. Since you already bought the amp, an F12 cab would be the way to go.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

Speaker cabinet design is a science all its own. It depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve. FRFR cabs will take a very careful design to get a flat response while traditional guitar cabs are a bit more forgiving. The size and shape of the cab directly affects the final response of the speaker. Speaker selection is a huge part of it. Your best bet would be to find an existing cab you like the sound of and copy its design as closely as possible. Randomly picking a speaker and cab size/shape to put together is unlikely to give you the result you might expect, especially if you are trying to go for anything close to a flat response. Might sound great, but it might sound terrible. There's a ton of factors involved.

As far as construction goes, plywood is probably the most common for modern guitar cabs, usually 5/8" or 3/4" thick. Cheaper cabs might use chipboard or particle board. MDF is very dense and heavy and more prone to water damage so it's probably not a great choice for a cab you'll travel a lot with. Early combo cabs were often solid wood like pine, but that's more rare these days unless it's a custom figured wood cab like those from Mesa Boogie or a recreation of a vintage design like Tweed amp clones and such. Most covered production cabs use finger joints for the box corners while the fancy solid wood cabs use dovetail joints. Doweled and glued butt or lap joints can also be quite strong if done correctly. If you dig around online you can find plans for various cab designs.

Coverings like tolex or tweed are definitely doable but can take a little patience and practice to do well. You can also use roll-on truck bed liner for a tough outer coating too.

It can be a fun project to tackle if you're the DIY type, but don't expect to save a bunch of money if you're buying everything from scratch, especially when factoring in tools and your time. Higher volume builders have economies of scale to help keep their prices low. It's hard to compete with that for a one off build.

Thank you very much for the detailed information and your thoughts on it. That helps a lot! After reading that my initial thoughts are I think I’ll buy an existing cabinet soon (don’t know what kind or size yet though) and see what he thinks about undertaking a one off cabinet build and if so we’ll see how it goes =)

 

[Brian Dean-O]

I moved from a Headrush 112 to a Celestion F12. There is a cabinet design posted by Celestion that isn’t too tough to build. Mine is based off that design and I like it over the Headrush. I concur with @mr_fender that you might not save much. But given the cost of quality FRFR cabs, you will still save some money. I don’t think you would want to put 4 of those in the Ampeg cab. You could, but that’s over $800 in speakers. For that money I’d buy the EV PXM-12MP. Next year I’ll be building a DIY powered 112 along the lines of the EV. 1/2 ply, light carry, and will use the same amp that’s used in the Power-stage. Since you already bought the amp, an F12 cab would be the way to go.

Thanks! I looked up the F12 speaker and DIY cabinet design on Celestion’s website, I’m intrigued and will look more into it as I would like to upgrade my FRFR at some point as well. As a matter of fact I saw what @mr_fender said and you can see where I replied with my thoughts but now after reading what you shared as well I’m thinking maybe I’ll see if we can undertake a cabinet like that one for the F12 instead of a traditional guitar cabinet like I was originally asking about. We’ll see, though. For now I will buy a guitar cab for the FM3 output 2 with the Powerstage. I’ll still be going output 1 to FOH at church, going output 1 to my KALI LP8s at home and going output 1 to myHeadrush 112 when I’m playing elsewhere but now I’ll have a real power amp and guitar cabinet to send to output 2 right along side any/all of the three… it’s gonna be awesome I hope.
I am going to take my guitar and FM3 to one of the guitar stores around here that have both the 108 and 112 on display and A/B compare them with the EQ adjustments that @WKSmith shared in the thread ‘Flattening the Headrush Curve’ (the settings were EQ’d for 108’s) and if it’s a lot better I’m gonna trade in my 112 for a 108 in the meantime until I get a next level FRFR.

 

[WKSmith]

One of the issues that you may find with F12 and similar FRFR speakers is that most all of them are 8ohm, yet most class D amps are rated at 4ohms per channel. This will mean much lower output from the amp unless you use them in parallel pairs.

 

[Smilzo]

The best guitar cab I built is a 1x12 with dimension similar to a 2x12. MDF for lateral panel, plywood for front and rear, with 2 cm wooden slats to seal and sit the panels. Speaker was inserted outside, better dispersion. Weight like a 2x12. As you decrease internal volume, it tend to sound boxy. The greater the depth, the greater the bass (I don't like vented port in guitar cabs). The wider the panel, the better the dispersion (2x12 wide seems the best compromise between portability and horizontal dispersion).
Nice balanced guitar tone with V30 and GB.
If you wish FRFR, I suggest you to buy a commercial product...

 

[Deadpool_25]

For now I will buy a guitar cab for the FM3 output 2 with the Powerstage.

I use a Powerstage 700 and real guitar cabs. It's a great setup. I have custom oversized 2x12s that work well for me with all genres. They each have a mix of a Mesa-branded V30 and a Creamback. Granted I don't get to use IRs or Dynacabs with that setup but it's fine--no need when the cabs are great anyway.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

I use a Powerstage 700 and real guitar cabs. It's a great setup. I have custom oversized 2x12s that work well for me with all genres. They each have a mix of a Mesa-branded V30 and a Creamback. Granted I don't get to use IRs or Dynacabs with that setup but it's fine--no need when the cabs are great anyway.

Yeah I was just a few minutes ago looking at Harley Benton G212 Plus cabs with V30 and Creambacks in it right before I saw your reply haha. More than I planned on spending. I was watching 1x12 vs 2x12 vs 4x12 type videos which led me to a bunch of reviews of those being really great for the price. Trying not to let my GAS get me in trouble here lol. I need a cabinet or there was no point in buying the Powerstage and I’d love to get something like what you have but I may have to go check out some pawn shops or something. Like I said I could buy that 4x12 for $200 but I just don’t want a 4x12.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

Different direction here, I ended up buying an Ampeg 4x12 cab from the guy and it's a solid cab and sounds decent for now.
I'm glad I got it and it really was the cheapest option and yeah it's heavy but for versatility purposes I think I'll be even more glad I did get a big ol' cab later.
It gets to ear bleed volume if in the bedroom with it but in a more big open space with a drummer I'm sure it would still be fine but I've not been able to test that yet but either way the reason I bring it up is if I am understanding correctly what @WKSmith and others have said is since this cab is 16 ohms and the ideal for the Powerstage is 8 ohms that means it's only getting to about half as loud as it could if it was an 8 ohm cab.
Remember this is not FRFR though this is a real guitar cab.

@Deadpool_25 I actually would like to put in V30s and Creambacks in it like you and a lot of others are using.

@WKSmith @Smilzo
I'm wondering if I put the right speakers in it would it change it from 16 ohms to 8 ohms or is there other things I would have to do or change out or whatever. Would I have to change the jack in the back or anything else or just putting the correct new speakers in it would change it from 16 to 8 in and of itself.
I keep seeing something about drivers in cabs I'm trying to figure out if those are in all cabs or some and if by chance there's drivers in mine do I have to change those too etc...
It's a lot I'm trying to figure out if anyone has any input on this let me know how hard it would be to make this 8 ohms with new speakers rather than the 16 ohms that the cab is now.
Thanks everybody.

 

[Deadpool_25]

@Brian Dean-O
Cool. What resistance are the stock speakers? You can almost certainly rewire it to be 4 ohms.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

@Brian Dean-O
Cool. What resistance are the stock speakers? You can almost certainly rewire it to be 4 ohms.

I don't know. I'm guessing I need to take the back panel off and look and see what's in there yeah? If I can do that sometime this weekend and upload pictures will that help?

 

[mistermikev]

I've built a cab or two in my day. below are a pair of greenboy bass cabs I built. I've build a number of guitar cabs too.

my 2 cents:
guitar cabs are pretty easy to get right. esp if it's open back. that said... it's easy enough to build from an established design and as a newbie I'd def do that. lots of stuff on the net.

baltic birch plywood is the way to go but not any baltic birch... the stuff you find at home depot is junk. quality baltic birch isn't going to have voids everywhere but a 6x6 at a local commercial lumber yard will be in the $100 neighborhood alone.

i would say diy... cause it'll be fun... but I doubt you'll save money. buying used is probably the best bang for your buck and the speakers will be broken in.

personally I have never liked 1x12 cabs for guitar... it's just too in your face. I'd take a 2x12, 4x10 or 4x12 over a 1x12 any day. you might go listen to some 1x12 vs 4x12 w headphones on your axefx b4 u decide.

just one aholes o.

EDIT: I see you went w a used 412... good for you.

 

[Deadpool_25]

I don't know. I'm guessing I need to take the back panel off and look and see what's in there yeah? If I can do that sometime this weekend and upload pictures will that help?

Yeah. Figure out what resistance they are and we can help easily.

I'm guessing they're 16 ohm speakers in which case you can wire them up so the cab is 4 ohms instead of 16. With four 8 ohm speakers you'll typically wire them up for 8 ohms.

 

[donaldr]

I've built a cab or two in my day. below are a pair of greenboy bass cabs I built. I've build a number of guitar cabs too.

Are they Fearful 15/6? How do they said playing guitar on those?

 

[mistermikev]

Are they Fearful 15/6? How do they said playing guitar on those?

yes, fearful/greenboy 15/6. they are pretty ballanced for guitar. somewhere between my studio monitors and my 2x12 cabs. mids are not quite as apparent as the 2x12 cabs and lows are a hair overemphasized but not overbearing or dark. I prefer them to my 2x12 and monitors (adam ax8) for 7 string or low range guitar stuff because the clarity on the lows is better than anything else I've experienced. on a 5 string bass, even using a 2x50 watt tube amp to drive them... even at reasonable volumes... they feel like an earthquake on that low B.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

@Deadpool_25 @mistermikev

Yeah. Figure out what resistance they are and we can help easily.

I'm guessing they're 16 ohm speakers in which case you can wire them up so the cab is 4 ohms instead of 16. With four 8 ohm speakers you'll typically wire them up for 8 ohms.

It took me forever to get finally get around to getting inside the cabinet to take these pictures as I’ve had a lot going on but here they are.
Thanks in advance for any input from anybody on this.

 

[warlockII]

The white stickers on the bottom speakers in your first picture will have the needed info. It should say the model and how many ohms each speaker is.

 

[mistermikev]

@Deadpool_25 @mistermikev

It took me forever to get finally get around to getting inside the cabinet to take these pictures as I’ve had a lot going on but here they are.
Thanks in advance for any input from anybody on this.

it's hard to really see what is going on there... hard to see +/- marking and hard to see what wire is going where. I'm also not sure what your speakers are (8 or 16 ohm). below is two sets of 2 8ohm speakers. each set wired in series, then the two sets are wired together in parallel.

and here is another doc in case you have dif speakers

should pretty much cover all the bases. i could easily be wrong (again, pics are not great) but it looks like you have 4 speakers wired all in parallel. if those are all 16ohm speakers you'd get 4 ohms.

 

[Brian Dean-O]

The little stickers say 16 ohms on each speaker sorry I didn’t realize that was a little blurry