FX-II / Matrix GT1000FX ---> Marshall 4x12 with Vintage 30s

Id missed that - though hes not saying the response isnt flat as such - more that it interacts with your speakers which makes the response non linear. Thats not the amnp, but the amp/speaker combination.

its splitting hairs a bit I know - bit still. Ultimately its the final sound that matters, so if that interaction takes things away from flat response and thats not what you want - its not great.
 
Hey folks, thanks for all the comments. And yes, I have to agree with Cliff on this. With the cab sims off, the factory presets (specially distortion) I'm using just do not sound "right". Comes out very bright and and they have too much low end (I did lower the first two low end band from the Global EQ immediately). After reading posts in the forum, I bought the Matrix (GT1000 2U) thinking it'd be one of the "recommended" power amps. I like how light and quiet it is. But I'm finding that I have to run cab sims ON in order to get a comparable sound to my real Marshall (for example). The clean tones are all fine with cab sims on or off, but the "dirty" sounds are just not as good. I wanted to start my FX-II experience by using the factory presets through this "neutral" amp into the cab and see how it'll sound, but I see now that lots of tweaking is ahead of me.

I also changed from unbalanced cables to the XLRs and it seems to be better to my ears. I kept going back and forth and decided to stay with the balanced XLR cables.

I guess I'll start compensating with EQ as suggested. It may be better just to forget about the amp and cab and just go with a Full Range setup, but I may just not be ready to go onstage without a 4x12. I'm just used to it, but if this is what it takes in the end, I'll make the switch.

Cliff, for us running power amps into guitar cabs, which power amp(s) would you consider neutral? What is YOUR recommendation?

Thank you

PS: Matt from Fractal has been an ASSET to me helping me through the initial setup of the rig. My sincere thanks to you Matt.
 
Yes, thin and raspy. I'll try your suggestions too. Thank you

Alainarose said:
You mentioned that it sounds "fried", I assume that you are implying that it sounds thin and raspy?

Try running a Filter or a Parameteric EQ after your amp block. Run the AXE with the power amp sim's on/cabinet sim's off. Set the filter as a highpass filter and start cutting off the higher end frequencies, you can do the same with a Para-Eq and you can set band 5 as a blocking filter.

This will cut off the higher frequencies that tend to make your tones sound thin, raspy, and fried. Do you run a boost in front of your higher gain amp patches? If you do try running a para-eq instead. Set a band to 770, .35, 5 or more and set it to peaking", this will give you the nice frown curve to act as a mid boost in front of the amp. I find this helps keep the body of the amp tone with giving it a boost. I find that the Drive pedals such as the tubescreamers tend to thin the tone out even more.

It is all about trial and error.
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Hey Paul,

at first I just wanted to hear the factory presets, since these guys of course know what they are doing. As a newbie to the system, I didn't want to try to create something right of the bat. Preset 39, Brown for example. I like it but with cab sims off it sounds, well, raspy as mentioned before. When I put cab sims on, the sound is "more realistic", but muffled. Somewhere in the middle is the answer and I'll find it.

I wanted to say that I really love the FX-II. I've been selling equipment left and right because I had enough of carrying mountains of gear (no roadies for me :-( ) and the FX-II does it. I'm going to take the FX-II to Guitar Center and hook it up to a QSC K12 and see how it is. Someone here said on a different post that this is all very personal to each one of us (what may sound great for you may sound terrible to me and vice-versa). I guess in the end we must try for ourselves and see what works for what we are trying to do. I have hope I can "fix" the sound so I can keep this very lightweight, super quiet GT1000FX 2U and my trusty Marshall cabs.
Thanks!

paulmapp8306 said:
As for the OP - have you designed any patches yourself yet or just using factory ones. If you have made one, post it for us to have a look at/listen to on our systems. If you havent - then do. The factory presets are OK, but i only find a small handfull of tones I can work with (and in fact have never used one even as a base).
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Prysma

I wasn't really following this thread when I first chimed in.
I follow Cliff's posts and saw what he said and I was just commenting on his comment.

But I don't think the slightly less than neutral qualities of the Matrix GT amps can account for the types of problems with your tone that you're describing.
The mods that Matrix made to their XT line of power amps that became the GT line of power amps were designed to make the Axe-thru-guitar cabs experience even more like the sound of a hi-end tube power amp because several Axe users have always felt that the Axe sounds more like a tube amp when run through a tube power amp like the Fryette power amps.
So there's quite a few people out there who are absolutely in love with the GT amps with their Axe's and their guitar cabs.

IMO, I feel like the Axe itself should be responsible for *all* of the tube amp mojo and it's also my opinion that it is quite up to that task when run through the best power amps available whether they be solid state or tube driven.
I use a Bryston 2B-LP-Pro myself which is slightly under-powered for stereo use but when bridged in mono it has plenty for me for my uses.
I've actually been thinking of grabbing one of the Matrix amps so that my headroom issues will be mitigated while still only using up 1U, but I'll probably buy an XT800 rather than a GT100.

I think that where you might really notice some sonic issues is if you are using one of the GT amps to drive a passive FRFR speaker, and even then you'd have to be nitpicking.

So it sounds to me like your real issue is simply not being very good at dialing in the Axe yet.
Either that or there's some type of a connection problem between your components.


Good luck.
 
Thanks for your comments Joe. And yes, I'll be a pro at this in no time. :)

I agree with you when you say the FX-II should be responsible for *all* of the tube mojo. That's why I decided to park the Mesa 2:90 and buy the Matrix, hoping I'd eliminate one variable from the system.

I'm really digging this whole idea of only carrying the FX-II and the GT1000FX for the gigs. I literally can't believe I can get these (great) sounds I'm getting from these two pieces only. As you wisely said, I just have to get better in dialing the unit for the dirty sounds and I'll be golden. Joe, I just sold my VHT combo, HH V800, PCM 81, Hughes and Kettner Access preamp and 2 SDE 3000s. I mean, common right? Got to love the freedom. And you guys (in this forum) along with Matt and Cliff are great helping out newbies like me.

Thanks!!!
joegold said:
Prysma

I wasn't really following this thread when I first chimed in.
I follow Cliff's posts and saw what he said and I was just commenting on his comment.

But I don't think the slightly less than neutral qualities of the Matrix GT amps can account for the types of problems with your tone that you're describing.
The mods that Matrix made to their XT line of power amps that became the GT line of power amps were designed to make the Axe-thru-guitar cabs experience even more like the sound of a hi-end tube power amp because several Axe users have always felt that the Axe sounds more like a tube amp when run through a tube power amp like the Fryette power amps.
So there's quite a few people out there who are absolutely in love with the GT amps with their Axe's and their guitar cabs.

IMO, I feel like the Axe itself should be responsible for *all* of the tube amp mojo and it's also my opinion that it is quite up to that task when run through the best power amps available whether they be solid state or tube driven.
I use a Bryston 2B-LP-Pro myself which is slightly under-powered for stereo use but when bridged in mono it has plenty for me for my uses.
I've actually been thinking of grabbing one of the Matrix amps so that my headroom issues will be mitigated while still only using up 1U, but I'll probably buy an XT800 rather than a GT100.

I think that where you might really notice some sonic issues is if you are using one of the GT amps to drive a passive FRFR speaker, and even then you'd have to be nitpicking.

So it sounds to me like your real issue is simply not being very good at dialing in the Axe yet.
Either that or there's some type of a connection problem between your components.


Good luck.
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I really suggest trying to dial in a patch from scratch - for more than one reason.

1. It helps to get to know the AFX and its parameters.

2. Your zoning in on your tone from the start.

3. All the presets are designed on a system your not using - there ALL designed for FRFR, and removing the cab blockl wont provide the sound that was intended unless your cabs are the same as the "afx" ones.

4. The presets were designed with different guitars as well - so again, unless your using the same guitar with the same PUs the result wont be "as designed".

You can flip through the presets to hear what the unit can do - from an FX POV and for a very basic feel for the amp sims - but even from day 1 of the Standard, the recommendation has been to just straight in and design a simple patch (amp/cab - or just amp for you). Start with an amp you know - play with the basic parameter to get the gain/basic tone, then play with the advanced parameters - all of them. Sweep them from min to max then back to factory. It will show you what each does - some effect tone, others feel. Some are more pronounced some less. Do this for a clean and two dirty patch's - one with master maxed (classic tone) and one with low master (modern high gain) as some parameters are more prominant with/without gain or high masters. Once you've done that you can start to look at other amps, knowing what things you can tweek to tune them to your tastes. Once you have a few your happy with you can start with the FX.


Oh - and as I said to your coment about XLR v 1/4" in the other thread - using XLR putts a 6db hotter signal out of the AFX. If you want a clear comparrison, use the two OPs, and notch OP2 (the 1/4" OP) up by 6db in the global gain. Id wager after doing this youd notice no difference at all.
 
2 Extra tips;
1. Make sure your gain stage settings are correct. I have faced the same issue as you starting with the Matrix coming from a tube amp. Look at FAQ at the Matrix web site or this forum for how to do this.
2. After fixing this make also sure you check the presets at band volume level not bedroom level.
 
Prysma, you may want to verify that you set the AxeFx input levels per instructions in section 3.1 of the manual. If you don't get this right, it could definitely affect your tone.
 
And if the Matrix amps are not neutral, which I believe Fractal recommend power amps to be when used with the Axe-FX, I hope Fractal ask the following on the G66 site (G66 - MATRIX GT1000FX STEREO AMP) to be modified:

"The Matrix GT1000FX power amps were developed specifically with guitarists in mind. They are ideal for use with all the Axe-Fx versions and are highly recommended by Fractal Audio. Of course they also work brilliantly with other amp and effects modellers, tube preamps, modelling amps with line-out jacks and as slave amps."

(underlined and put in bold by me)
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Um. As far as i can tell the Matrix amps are pretty flat. Certainly a lot flatter than my old VHT power amps. I remember Jay Mitchell measuring the response of the Matrix, and saying it was nothing special, just a well designed flat response amp (his idea of nothing special though is generally pretty good).
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gt1000fx-sweep.jpg
 
Looks like we can rule out the Matrix as the not beeing flat part. This could mean that the used cable between the axfx and the Matrix caused the issue or even worse .......... the axfx itself??????
Cliff we need a respons curve :D
 
Let's not jump to conclusions, eadgbe. We know very little about the testing process etc.

However, I was a bit surprised when I saw Cliff's post.

And NiceChris: they way you posted the image from the Matrix site could be misinterpreted as the image being Jay's measurement. Just sayin'...
 
Richard_G said:
We know very little about the testing process etc.
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This is exactly my point. Cliff should back up his statement with his measurements and the setup used, dont you think? Otherwise isn't it then just another opinion of an another forum member?
 
FractalAudio said:
The Matrix amps are not neutral. They emphasize the lows and highs. You will need to compensate for this.
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eadgbe said:
Ooops. New information out of the blue. I think Matrix has some explanation to do here. Or is the relationship between the two companies changing?
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vAmp said:
Nothing out of the blue. Cliff said this at least once before:
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I always take "flat" with a grain of salt. IMO, all power amps have their "thumbprint", although some less significant than others. Minor tweaks to the lows and highs for different amps is nothing new, and should not be an issue as long as you're not having to make radical EQ adjustments across the board. As usual, it just comes down to making whatever amp you're working with work for you.
 
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