Fractal setup as aggregate device with 2nd interface (Mac)

Bruce Sokolovic

Bruce Sokolovic

Fractal Fanatic
Anyone doing this in OSX? I imagine once that’s achieved, I’ll see all the I/O from both interfaces, yes? Never tried this before. Running a Mac Pro, both interfaces are USB and running most recent vsn of protools. Had a conversation today and was annoyed Avid selects one or the other interface upon launch with no rhyme or reason. Someone turned me on to this feature. You must first create the virtual device in system settings, correct? I know this might be more of an Avid or OSX question, but it seems like an exciting way to incorporate the Fractal in the home studio environment.
 
yup, on OSX you can build an aggregate device and combine whatever hardware devices you want, when you select the aggregate device in whatever DAW or program all those inputs show up under the one aggregate. Bless you Steve Jobs (R.I.P.)
 
use the Audio Midi Setup in your Utilities folder to set up your aggregate device , works great most of the time...except I often have to reset that app after a restart for it to see my III in the aggregate setting..havent figured out why yet
 
Just to be sure, I’ll see all the I/O and not have to make any physical connections other than USB and one guitar cable, correct? I should be able to route audio back into input 3 or 4 of the fractal and use that as buss effects in my session, while monitoring out of my other interface. I have this right? I’m avoiding multiple TRS connections this way I think.
 
Yes this is correct. On one rig I have 3 AFX3’s in an aggregate device along with a T3 interface. So I have 3 USB cables and one T3 cable connected. No analog or even aes/spdif cables are used. At one point (in transition) I had 4 additional AX2’s connected.

There are some caveats... the io naming makes the initial setup terribly confusing. You can achieve 2 stereo loops through each AFX3. So to the way io is partially hardcoded, you can’t get 3 or 4 loops (sounds like Cliff may address this in a future usb and version firmware).

Also, re-checking (and sometimes reordering) the devices in the aggregate is sometimes necessary depending on your computer and usb hub situation. This can happen if you use a laptop and unplug/plugin different devices (eg you plug-in to a dock or add a usb device or hub). If your setup is relatively static, you may not see this issue.

Make sure your usb hubs are properly powered. Sometimes you may have the correct total power to support the axe on a hub but do to the startup sequence, there can be a surge that forces a re-ordering of the usb device ids on the Mac. That will cause an id mismatch in the aggregate and lead to the rechecking issue mentioned above. If Cliff allows us to name the axe with a unique name, there will be a workaround for this on the Mac (using a script that watches for connections and the fixes the id issue based on the axe midi device name). I’ve demonstrated that this works but need the ability to uniquely name the axe.

I solved this by dedicating hubs and a computer to the rig and it hasn’t had any id issues since.

One last thing... you must have your clocks synced properly. I use my T3 as the main clock. The other interfaces must follow the main one and also be set to drift. I have additional interfaces connected for the T3 interface and once accidentally had one in the chain as the main clock with the T3 as secondary, but set as the main on in the aggregate. This worked most of the time. Once I fixed that, the clock has been rock solid. The ONLY times I have sync issues now is with individual AX3’s if I load a preset via AxeEdit. Occasionally the load process (I think) is too much and disturbs the sync on that one AX and I get garbles audio from it. To fix it, I just reload the preset.
 
grape said:
Yes this is correct. On one rig I have 3 AFX3’s in an aggregate device along with a T3 interface. So I have 3 USB cables and one T3 cable connected. No analog or even aes/spdif cables are used. At one point (in transition) I had 4 additional AX2’s connected.

There are some caveats... the io naming makes the initial setup terribly confusing. You can achieve 2 stereo loops through each AFX3. So to the way io is partially hardcoded, you can’t get 3 or 4 loops (sounds like Cliff may address this in a future usb and version firmware).

Also, re-checking (and sometimes reordering) the devices in the aggregate is sometimes necessary depending on your computer and usb hub situation. This can happen if you use a laptop and unplug/plugin different devices (eg you plug-in to a dock or add a usb device or hub). If your setup is relatively static, you may not see this issue.

Make sure your usb hubs are properly powered. Sometimes you may have the correct total power to support the axe on a hub but do to the startup sequence, there can be a surge that forces a re-ordering of the usb device ids on the Mac. That will cause an id mismatch in the aggregate and lead to the rechecking issue mentioned above. If Cliff allows us to name the axe with a unique name, there will be a workaround for this on the Mac (using a script that watches for connections and the fixes the id issue based on the axe midi device name). I’ve demonstrated that this works but need the ability to uniquely name the axe.

I solved this by dedicating hubs and a computer to the rig and it hasn’t had any id issues since.

One last thing... you must have your clocks synced properly. I use my T3 as the main clock. The other interfaces must follow the main one and also be set to drift. I have additional interfaces connected for the T3 interface and once accidentally had one in the chain as the main clock with the T3 as secondary, but set as the main on in the aggregate. This worked most of the time. Once I fixed that, the clock has been rock solid. The ONLY times I have sync issues now is with individual AX3’s if I load a preset via AxeEdit. Occasionally the load process (I think) is too much and disturbs the sync on that one AX and I get garbles audio from it. To fix it, I just reload the preset.
Click to expand...
Great info, thanks! Hope your feedback leads to a resolution of this device ID sitch, it really is sorta a PITA, and the last of numerous USB/MIDI issues that FAS and Apple have Mostly resolved regarding the III
 
grape said:
Yes this is correct. On one rig I have 3 AFX3’s in an aggregate device along with a T3 interface. So I have 3 USB cables and one T3 cable connected. No analog or even aes/spdif cables are used. At one point (in transition) I had 4 additional AX2’s connected.

There are some caveats... the io naming makes the initial setup terribly confusing. You can achieve 2 stereo loops through each AFX3. So to the way io is partially hardcoded, you can’t get 3 or 4 loops (sounds like Cliff may address this in a future usb and version firmware).

Also, re-checking (and sometimes reordering) the devices in the aggregate is sometimes necessary depending on your computer and usb hub situation. This can happen if you use a laptop and unplug/plugin different devices (eg you plug-in to a dock or add a usb device or hub). If your setup is relatively static, you may not see this issue.

Make sure your usb hubs are properly powered. Sometimes you may have the correct total power to support the axe on a hub but do to the startup sequence, there can be a surge that forces a re-ordering of the usb device ids on the Mac. That will cause an id mismatch in the aggregate and lead to the rechecking issue mentioned above. If Cliff allows us to name the axe with a unique name, there will be a workaround for this on the Mac (using a script that watches for connections and the fixes the id issue based on the axe midi device name). I’ve demonstrated that this works but need the ability to uniquely name the axe.

I solved this by dedicating hubs and a computer to the rig and it hasn’t had any id issues since.

One last thing... you must have your clocks synced properly. I use my T3 as the main clock. The other interfaces must follow the main one and also be set to drift. I have additional interfaces connected for the T3 interface and once accidentally had one in the chain as the main clock with the T3 as secondary, but set as the main on in the aggregate. This worked most of the time. Once I fixed that, the clock has been rock solid. The ONLY times I have sync issues now is with individual AX3’s if I load a preset via AxeEdit. Occasionally the load process (I think) is too much and disturbs the sync on that one AX and I get garbles audio from it. To fix it, I just reload the preset.
Click to expand...
GREAT INFO. THANKS!!! I was wondering about clocking. I have a 2 channel apogee Rosetta I clock to currently. It’s connected spdif to my presonus 192. Will I still be able to clock to the apogee in this situation?
 
Ok reporting back with my results. My setup is this. AxeFXIII and presonus both connected USB. Presonus was happily existing clocked to an apogee Rosetta which I monitored out of. I created the aggregate device easy enough. There was no option to clock to the apogee (but this is already selected in the presonus). I selected the presonus as a clock source.
First launch all kinds of clicks and pops.
After that no audio in from the fractal. I’d really love to get this sorted out but realize this might be a presonus/apogee/avid issue and has zero to do with the fractal not playing nice so my apologies in advance for being somewhat off topic here. I’m going to open a support ticket at avid and see if they can help sort this out too. It’s a great idea, I see all the I/O both on the apple and avid end of things I’m just getting either lots of distortion or nothing in or out.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Ok reporting back with my results. My setup is this. AxeFXIII and presonus both connected USB. Presonus was happily existing clocked to an apogee Rosetta which I monitored out of. I created the aggregate device easy enough. There was no option to clock to the apogee (but this is already selected in the presonus). I selected the presonus as a clock source.
First launch all kinds of clicks and pops.
After that no audio in from the fractal. I’d really love to get this sorted out but realize this might be a presonus/apogee/avid issue and has zero to do with the fractal not playing nice so my apologies in advance for being somewhat off topic here. I’m going to open a support ticket at avid and see if they can help sort this out too. It’s a great idea, I see all the I/O both on the apple and avid end of things I’m just getting either lots of distortion or nothing in or out.
Click to expand...
It may help to make sure the sampling rates match on all units at 48K
 
Update. I have the aggregate device sorted out. I’m able to go in protools with the fractal and I’m coming out of the presonus and apogee.
What I’m not seeing clearly is to how to use ins/outs 2, 3 and 4 as insert points in a protools session. I set up a verb with an in 3> reverb > out 3 and tried to set up an aux track in protools to bus some audio over to it. Seems like the ins and outs do not mirror in name to the fractal labels (I think this was addressed upthread). Anyone maybe help me with some routing? I’ve never really messed with the I/O section in protools, the default settings always worked for me.
 
Before I completely give up on this USB (I just ordered 6 more patch cables) I just want to make sure I have the fractal correct. I have my normal processed guitar going from In 1 > lots of blocks of awesomeness > out 1. The I have in 3 > delay or verb block > out 3. I should be able to then get that shot out of my daw to in 3 then out 3 and back in, do I have this right on the fractal end??
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Before I completely give up on this USB (I just ordered 6 more patch cables) I just want to make sure I have the fractal correct. I have my normal processed guitar going from In 1 > lots of blocks of awesomeness > out 1. The I have in 3 > delay or verb block > out 3. I should be able to then get that shot out of my daw to in 3 then out 3 and back in, do I have this right on the fractal end??
Click to expand...

Hey man! I assume you are trying to do a reamp style thing?
Yes but the only issue here is that to get a "usb in " via input 3 you have to change the I/O setting from analog to usb in the Axe Fx ! So instead you should try the alternative of "Input USB " block in that case using 7 and 8 instead of 5 and 6 . Really confusing stuff at first but once you get it it's great . Attached is the reference from the manual to help you out!Screenshot_2019-01-02-10-06-10.png Screenshot_2019-01-02-10-04-37.png
 
Not really for reamping. Trying to use the fractal as a hardware insert in the daw for effects. Should be able to shoot bussed tracks in and out of the fractal and back into the daw. The fractal has some beautiful verbs. Why use a plugin for the session? I was able to get both amped and raw signal into protools via USB and part of an aggregate device. I just can’t seem to make this last loop work for the life of me. I’m sure I can just patch it in, but I think this is supposed to work too.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Not really for reamping. Trying to use the fractal as a hardware insert in the daw for effects. Should be able to shoot bussed tracks in and out of the fractal and back into the daw. The fractal has some beautiful verbs. Why use a plugin for the session? I was able to get both amped and raw signal into protools via USB and part of an aggregate device. I just can’t seem to make this last loop work for the life of me. I’m sure I can just patch it in, but I think this is supposed to work too.
Click to expand...


I get what you mean dude ! Like basically your using the axe fx as a reverb plugin ! Ok let me help you with that!Can you run me through in detail how it's set up ?

Ex : Mono Insert: Piano audio -> Axe Fx 1 (in 1) etc etc

If you don't mind so i can see visualise your signal chain better

Thanks dude :)


Side note: never put a colon just before any word starting with p or it'll end up like the following
:piano LOL
 
Last edited:
hydro said:
I get what you mean dude ! Like basically your using the axe fx as a reverb plugin ! Ok let me help you with that can you run me through in detail how it's set up ?

Ex : Mono Insert: Piano audio -> Axe Fx 1 (in 1) etc etc

If you don't mind so i can see visualise your signal chain better

Thanks dude :)


Side note: never put a colon just before any word starting with p or it'll end up like the following
:piano LOL
Click to expand...
I have the AxeFXIII and a presonus 192 as a aggregate device in protools both USB. The only audio cable I have connected now is into the axe front input. To further this in detail, the whole thing is clocked to the presonus which is spdif to an apogee Rosetta.
I have it all playing together nicely and can visually see all my ins and outs. I’ve simplified my life by removing ins and outs I’m not using in protools I/O menu. (none of the fractal ones, just ADAT in the presonus)
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
I have the AxeFXIII and a presonus 192 as a aggregate device in protools both USB. The only audio cable I have connected now is into the axe front input. To further this in detail, the whole thing is clocked to the presonus which is spdif to an apogee Rosetta.
I have it all playing together nicely and can visually see all my ins and outs. I’ve simplified my life by removing ins and outs I’m not using in protools I/O menu. (none of the fractal ones, just ADAT in the presonus)
Click to expand...

Alright that gives me a clear view of things from your hardware side !
Instead of in3 out 3

Have you tried the in U instead of the in 3 ?
And instead of out 3 have u tried out 2 ?

(I assume the 8 axe channels are already 4 stereo in your case too)
 
I can assign the channels mono. I have tried every combo of in/out like blocks but have not tried mixing in/out blocks. You mentioned there is a “set audio I/O to USB in global settings? I think that could be my issue if that’s the case. In 3 > block > out three should work though, yes?
I have tried the USB in block to no avail
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
I can assign the channels mono. I have tried every combo of in/out like blocks but have not tried mixing in/out blocks. You mentioned there is a “set audio I/O to USB in global settings? I think that could be my issue if that’s the case. In 3 > block > out three should work though, yes?
I have tried the USB in block to no avail
Click to expand...

Yeah bro! I believe it's just the I/O setting this case (but I could be completely wrong myself who knows) howbeit from what I know "out 3" is actually the instrument input 1 when the I/O mode is changed.(Hopefully someone else out there can confirm this for me in that case)

But the "in usb" is not dependant on i/o so it should work if u just switch


So why not try this

Instead of

In 3 -> etc etc -> out 3

Try

in usb -> etc etc -> out 2


Channel transmitting the audio into axe fx for that one should be
Axe fx 7/8 out


And the channel receiving the effects in ur daw should be the AxeFx 3/4 in
(Whatever ur speakers ) out
 
hydro said:
Yeah bro! I believe it's just the I/O setting this case (but I could be completely wrong myself who knows) howbeit from what I know "out 3" is actually the instrument input 1 when the I/O mode is changed.(Hopefully someone else out there can confirm this for me in that case)

But the "in usb" is not dependant on i/o so it should work if u just switch


So why not try this

Instead of

In 3 -> etc etc -> out 3

Try

in usb -> etc etc -> out 2


Channel transmitting the audio into axe fx for that one should be
Axe fx 7/8 out


And the channel receiving the effects in ur daw should be the AxeFx 3/4 in
(Whatever ur speakers ) out
Click to expand...
I will try this the next time I’m in front of it and report back. I bet a lot of people get the AxeFXIII like me and dedicate it for studio use and never even contemplate using it like this. Seems to me a shame, given how stellar the effects are and the routing capability of the unit it should be utilized to its fullest.
 
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