Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

WKSmith said:
So .. I had a few support questions that came up this week for the launch of the V2 I thought that I would share with the group.. that has faithfully followed my humble solution the the FR issues.

Question 1 ?
Are you concerned that the V2 can still hiss and is that false advertisement?

The V2 solves the Idle hiss of the stock preamps (including the stock "fixed" ones) at idle with no input connected and the volume down.. The stock preamp ..and especially the horn tweeter gimmick screaming hiss and self noise is gone. It has been exorcised with the V2.
However ... gain noise (resistor or Johnson noise) is still possible if you crank the volume, especially with a cranked source or gained up preset. The V2 fixes a lot, but doesn't change the laws of physics. The screaming hiss from the horn is gone. You can still make ugly noises with it though.
Try to not do that.

Question 2 ?
The eq is a lot quieter on the flatish setting and gets loud if I crank it from 12:00 to 3:00
what is going on?!?!?

The eq is set to match the stock freq curve with the knobs at 12:00 and the cut zeroed. If you boost the mids it flattens the eq out and boosts the overall level like 12ish dB.
The V2 at neutral ..is a lot quieter at bedroom levels and almost exactly matches the stock freq curve. But if you jack the mids..it not only gets flatter ... but much louder. It's doing what it is supposed to do. If you jack the bass .. stuff will start vibrating.
Try to avoid that too.

Question 3
My clip light doesn't stay on (or come on at all)

It only comes on with a hot input (Fractal can do +20dB) it can clip with the source volume cranked, the FR volume cranked, or the eq jacked. The light is just a reminder to keep it sane. If it stays constantly lit ...something is going to eventually fail badly.

With great power, comes much responsibility... yall be easy with it 😎

try to not break stuff. I left plenty of room for you to go crazy.

If you are the kind of person that wants to turn everything on 12 and hold it there. ... the V2 is the only thing in the FR that will last very long. Try to not do that either 🙂
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My V2 is quieter than my studio monitors and my QSC 8 now.
 
Well, folks, I have now installed my first V2. My second FR 10 will only be here in a few weeks because I was using it in the states and I'm now back home.
I must say, @WKSmith, you knocked this one out of the park. I already loved my FR10 with the original board. But this is something else. The EQ is SO musical - the mids are magic. So a big thank you for this. Above and Beyond.
See - mine are already hiss-free, I just decided to keep supporting Liam for his work and dedication. I was rewarded with friendship, excellence and an even better sounding amp! Wow! Worthy of the name .. Archangel!
 
pima1234 said:
I'll be curious to see what my Open Box (blem) one from Musician's Friend is like. I no longer care if it (like the one I already have) has the hiss, because that's going to be taken care of soon.
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Yeah, so my 2nd FR-10 showed up today. Open-box, Level 2 (blem). The only "blem" I can find is the blasted hiss. (lol) And so now, I really do have hiss, in full stereo!

V2 will be the game changer, and I'm looking forward to it.
 
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
 
Patzag said:
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
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True but I think it’s flat enough. Played back a couple of songs that I know and then compared to studio monitors and with the fr10 controls I can get it close.

I love this thing now
 
Patzag said:
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
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Compared with my Head Rush 108 my FR-10 is different, “fuller” maybe? I believe that every kind of FRFR is different, as Monitor speakers are.
 
Patzag said:
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
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Why I'll be holding on to my EV PXM-12MP. I really look forward to comparing it to the V2.
 
Patzag said:
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
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It's been apparent for a long time now that FRFR is, more than anything, market buzzword jargon.

Funnily enough, I would say most PA speakers are far more accurate and closer to flat than any of our current FRFR offerings. I actually kind of hate the term, because when manufacturers are allowed to slap it onto anything and everything, it completely loses it's meaning.

The term basically just means "full range-ish". Shouldn't even include the flat part.

Good news is that flat response is overrated, especially for a thing like the Fender FR. Unless you've treated and tested your room with bass traps and sound deadening, you are always listening to your room.

That means even if the FRFRs were flat response, the minute you play it in your room it's never gonna be flat. Therefore personally, I look for a system that has good sound and also allows to tweak the response based on the room (the FR10/12 fit this need very well). After all, our ears are king.

Who cares if it's truly flat if it sounds amazing? If you're worried about how things will translate to FoH, you should know their systems are also almost never truly flat either. But you can still listen to your same presets on a variety of systems and get an idea of what your favorite solution is doing to the sound. Especially against something like studio monitors.

I'd argue simply knowing what your main speaker solution does to your sound is more valuable than whether it's flat or not.
 
Jkist7 said:
It's been apparent for a long time now that FRFR is, more than anything, market buzzword jargon.

Funnily enough, I would say most PA speakers are far more accurate and closer to flat than any of our current FRFR offerings. I actually kind of hate the term, because when manufacturers are allowed to slap it onto anything and everything, it completely loses it's meaning.

The term basically just means "full range-ish". Shouldn't even include the flat part.

Good news is that flat response is overrated, especially for a thing like the Fender FR. Unless you've treated and tested your room with bass traps and sound deadening, you are always listening to your room.

That means even if the FRFRs were flat response, the minute you play it in your room it's never gonna be flat. Therefore personally, I look for a system that has good sound and also allows to tweak the response based on the room (the FR10/12 fit this need very well). After all, our ears are king.

Who cares if it's truly flat if it sounds amazing? If you're worried about how things will translate to FoH, you should know their systems are also almost never truly flat either. But you can still listen to your same presets on a variety of systems and get an idea of what your favorite solution is doing to the sound. Especially against something like studio monitors.

I'd argue simply knowing what your main speaker solution does to your sound is more valuable than whether it's flat or not.
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I was going to say wrong thread because you forgot to mention the Hiss issue/solution but then I remembered I’m not an admin. Yet.
 
Jkist7 said:
It's been apparent for a long time now that FRFR is, more than anything, market buzzword jargon.

Funnily enough, I would say most PA speakers are far more accurate and closer to flat than any of our current FRFR offerings. I actually kind of hate the term, because when manufacturers are allowed to slap it onto anything and everything, it completely loses it's meaning.

The term basically just means "full range-ish". Shouldn't even include the flat part.

Good news is that flat response is overrated, especially for a thing like the Fender FR. Unless you've treated and tested your room with bass traps and sound deadening, you are always listening to your room.

That means even if the FRFRs were flat response, the minute you play it in your room it's never gonna be flat. Therefore personally, I look for a system that has good sound and also allows to tweak the response based on the room (the FR10/12 fit this need very well). After all, our ears are king.

Who cares if it's truly flat if it sounds amazing? If you're worried about how things will translate to FoH, you should know their systems are also almost never truly flat either. But you can still listen to your same presets on a variety of systems and get an idea of what your favorite solution is doing to the sound. Especially against something like studio monitors.

I'd argue simply knowing what your main speaker solution does to your sound is more valuable than whether it's flat or not.
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Great points, yeah true FRFR is a little irrelevant. So many people leave FRFR for power amp and guitar cabs anyway. I am always tweaking the EQ on the FR12 for the room, the volume, it may even be just that particular day my ears are hearing it a little different.
 
Patzag said:
I want to add one thing to my overall experience with this FR 10. while it sounds really, really good. It is no flat-response system. The reason it has more "amp in the room" mojo then a lot of other FRFR speakers is because it's not FR. It definitely colors the sound. So if you're looking for a "monitor" sound, this is not it. It's a great backline and it's a great complement to a modeler. It resonates, for lack of a better word, wood.
Playing music through it will tell you exactly how flat it is not. Playing guitar through it is pretty cool.
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this is precisely why I enjoy playing my guitar through the FR's over my CLRs. That being said I don't adjust anything in my presets for playing through one or the other which is the best part. CLR's still are kick ass though just more clinical and flat which I prefer when playing clean presets. Anything with Dirt...much prefer with the FR12's all that said. what is ultimate is playing through both sets at the same time. Unlimited Powwwwwwwahhh - Palpatine
 
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I have a Celestion F12-X200 cab and a Crown amp. Playing music through it shows that it’s not flat, but not horrible either. Flatter than a lot of consumer phones with the bass heavy eq like they’re doing these days.
 
Jkist7 said:
Good news is that flat response is overrated, especially for a thing like the Fender FR. Unless you've treated and tested your room with bass traps and sound deadening, you are always listening to your room.
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It's often even worse than most people realize in reality.

Now, I do agree with you at least in general. When you're talking about playing an instrument, being inspired by what you're hearing is INFINITELY more important than the sound being totally "accurate".

But, outside of concert hall sized rooms, below 200-400 Hz (ish), the room absolutely dominates the sound to the extent that:

a) the speakers themselves almost don't matter, at least in comparison, and
b) it very often isn't possible to actually "linearize" the response without jumping through severe hoops - floor to ceiling 16" thick bass traps only get you like 70% of the way there, give or take.

And that's ignoring room reverb sound, SBIR, and a bunch of other issues.

You can chase that dragon forever. The encouraging part of it....is that the vast majority of people just don't care and/or don't even know what truly smooth-response low-end sounds like - most have never heard it. And, you can refine your sound as you hear it in more places and on more speakers. Which is cool.

IMHO...pick a system where music sounds right to you, listen to your tone in the context of a band or backing tracks, get close...and refine from there.

When you're playing....whatever inspires you is probably right.

I'm very much looking forward to picking up an FR-12 after my name comes up for the preamp.
 
marsonic said:
I'm very much looking forward to picking up an FR-12 after my name comes up for the preamp.
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Right thread.


So this morning after installing the 8 Beta for the fm3 I decided to try the Orange amp and see if it sounded like I remember it sounding at the music store years ago.

not quite but hey there are knobs on top of the fr10 and the new V2 eq is something special. 5 seconds later after playing w the treble knob I’m there.

Can anyone with the Beta/and V2 try the citrus 🍊 amp. I’d like to know what you guys think. Before I used to dive deep.

The V2 eq tweaks better for me than what I can achieve on the fm3
 
Music Store Live on Reverb. If you’re on the hunt for anything they stock, like the FR cabs, message them and ask if they can cut you a deal. They have for me on multiple purchases, including the FR-10 I
ordered yesterday.
 
LolainNB said:
Right thread.


So this morning after installing the 8 Beta for the fm3 I decided to try the Orange amp and see if it sounded like I remember it sounding at the music store years ago.

not quite but hey there are knobs on top of the fr10 and the new V2 eq is something special. 5 seconds later after playing w the treble knob I’m there.

Can anyone with the Beta/and V2 try the citrus 🍊 amp. I’d like to know what you guys think. Before I used to dive deep.

The V2 eq tweaks better for me than what I can achieve on the fm3
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From the day I bought the Axe I was uncomfortable with the notion of playing with the knobs on the Axe to adjust EQ playing live. But because the modeling was so darn good, I’ve never looked back. So, I really, really like that Fender integrated an EQ(could’ve been a little quieter though :) )
 
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