Current state of modeling vs real amps

kmanick said:
I am one of those guys on the other side of these debates. I tried using the Axe with the "cream of the crop FRFR wedges"
and just could not get along with the FRFR. I now use it in 4cm mode with my JVM and I love it.
For recording I don't think there is anything out there that can touch it.
for playing live, I need to feel connected to my rig or I play like crap . I could not go In ears for that same reason.
I tried it with my band a few times and absolutely hated it.
If fryette would ever come out with the LXII power amp and it lived up to the hype, I would ditch the JVM and go
FOH from out 1 and into a real cab from out 2.
I have tried a bunch of power amps and did not "love" the axe with any of them .
Now this is a personal thing not a knock against the Axe
or any of the power amps I tried, so you really need to "try for yourself" and see how it works for you.
I'm also playing in a cover band that does 70'80'and 90's rock (rowdier stuff) and in a road house blues band.
The Jvm is works great so I have no need to try and make modeling work for me.
If I had a BE100 I'd be all set :)
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I'm somewhat the same. The Axe Fx sounds incredible and covers all the bases for a gigging musician that's looking for a light weight solution, and for those looking for a single box for direct recording. Even so, I still feel a certain connection when playing through my tube amps and cabs that's not 100% there yet for me with the Axe. This is no knock against the Axe Fx, but if we are being realistic, it is a work in progress.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I was chatting with Misha Mansoor about the Friedman HBE as he also owns the real thing. He said that the HBE is pretty close. Same character, both super tight and very pronounced harmonics.

I also did an A/B with a real Mark IV and it's honestly so close I would never bet money on knowing which is real or Axe.

Is it 100% the same? Probably not since Quantum is not "the final FW" and even two of the same amps in real life don't sound the same.

I would say it's as close as I would ever need it to be and has been for a long time.
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This is exactly how I feel, I would not bet on which is real or which is the Axe II, it's just that close ,the feels is there for me, the tightness, the crunch, the cleans, Cliff is a god among mere mortals:) Tho Mikko is a cool mother too haha:)
 
FWIW I think the worst thing to do with the axe fx , or any modeler , is get caught up comparing it to a tube amp.
It's not one, it's a different approach.

Vinyl , CDs, MP3 all offer different benefits but it's a trade off in areas with all 3. Best option is to use the one who's benefits work for you.

Axe fx sounds amazing and its flexibility is amazing.and it's an amazing tool to own. Full stop.
 
mongey said:
FWIW I think the worst thing to do with the axe fx , or any modeler , is get caught up comparing it to a tube amp.
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A tube amp will always be the 'benchmark' that any type of modeller will be compared to. I don't think it is wrong either. If you are trying to model something, then it is only reasonable that you benchmark against the real deal.

The reason people compare is because they want to downsize or replace a "real" amp, so they want the solution that best represents this; whether it's the tone, feel or combination of both. It's only natural that comparisons are then made.

I know I compared the Axe Fx to my AC30 before making the switch final, as this was the amp/rig that I needed to replace with a more compact solution, and therefore I needed to be sure the Axe Fx could deliver the goods.
 
I have a Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary head and vintage Marshall 4x12, this was my main live rig until FW11 came out, which for me was the point that the Axe became so close that any slight difference in sound was outweighed by the many benefits - unlimited amp/fx/cab possibilities, light weight etc. (I use a Matrix power amp and 2x12 cab)
My tube rig has been in storage ever since, can't imagine going back.
 
I'm definitely one of those guys that can't play with in ears which is why I will probably also be the one that complains that it doesn't feel like an amp. I've had a 3/4 stack behind me for nearly 30 years of playing in a band and that's going to be hard to get past... I think. There is also the cool factor of having a stack on stage. This is definitely more of a rock and metal thing but I can't deny it is a factor. But I will say the amount of fun I've had just playing at programming the fx8 is really the catalyst for now wanting to get the axe. It's just a really cool tool, and virtually anything imaginable can be patched up. So even if it doesn't replace my rig I'm already sold on getting one. Now if my clients would just pay me I could start looking for a deal.
 
mongey said:
FWIW I think the worst thing to do with the axe fx , or any modeler , is get caught up comparing it to a tube amp.
It's not one, it's a different approach.
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That is literally the only way to see how well a modeler is capable of replacing a tube amp.

For people thinking "I love my [insert amp name in here] so much that I'm not interested in the Axe-Fx" doing comparisons like f.ex. this one that I did:



This is exactly what I think more people should do to realize how amazingly close the current state of the Axe-Fx is.

I understand your point though. The Axe-Fx has many amazing tones in it regardless of them sounding like some real life amps or not. So yes, getting hung up on the Axe-Fx sounding like your real amp is essentially pointless as it is capable of sounding potentially way better.

However I'm someone who works with real amps and the Axe-Fx all the time and I must say that once I got my Axe-Fx sounding just like my real amps those are the presets I use the most. It's not about them sounding better than anything else. It's about the authenticity of the presets. It's closest to the point where people hear a clip and go "that's got to be a real amp".

It's not about needing to justify that the Axe-Fx is good. It's about proving that going back to tube amps makes no sense at this point.
 
I do agree with you Mikko. I use the real amps as well and I think with quantum we are closer than ever to the real amp tone and feel.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
That is literally the only way to see how well a modeler is capable of replacing a tube amp.

For people thinking "I love my [insert amp name in here] so much that I'm not interested in the Axe-Fx" doing comparisons like f.ex. this one that I did:



This is exactly what I think more people should do to realize how amazingly close the current state of the Axe-Fx is.

I understand your point though. The Axe-Fx has many amazing tones in it regardless of them sounding like some real life amps or not. So yes, getting hung up on the Axe-Fx sounding like your real amp is essentially pointless as it is capable of sounding potentially way better.

However I'm someone who works with real amps and the Axe-Fx all the time and I must say that once I got my Axe-Fx sounding just like my real amps those are the presets I use the most. It's not about them sounding better than anything else. It's about the authenticity of the presets. It's closest to the point where people hear a clip and go "that's got to be a real amp".

It's not about needing to justify that the Axe-Fx is good. It's about proving that going back to tube amps makes no sense at this point.
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That's the thing. While the axe fx and the like are measured as how like a"real" amp they are the technology
hasn't really arrived.it is a "real" amp. I own a dual recto and still love it. But the benefits of using my axe fx out weigh the benefits of the things the "real " amp does well. Just judging the axe fx on if it sounds like a "real" amp doesn't do it justice IMHO. Modeling has arrived and is real.
 
mongey said:
That's the thing. While the axe fx and the like are measured as how like a"real" amp they are the technology
hasn't really arrived.it is a "real" amp. I own a dual recto and still love it. But the benefits of using my axe fx out weigh the benefits of the things the "real " amp does well. Just judging the axe fx on if it sounds like a "real" amp doesn't do it justice IMHO. Modeling has arrived and is real.
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Yeah exactly. It would be impossible to make a real amp as versatile as just one of the Axe-Fx amp models. :)
 
I am a tube amp nut. Especially Mesa amps. I own a Dual rectifier, a triple rectifier, a mark iv, a mark v, a quad preamp, a Marshall TSL 100, and an ADA MP1 preamp......I purchased the Axe fx XL+ in July and I have literally not used any of my amps since. I NEVER thought that would happen. I don't know if I could bear to sell those amps right now but I wouldn't be surprised that changes.
 
I've had a Eggie MOD50, Zinky Superfly, Hughes and Kettner Triamp and a slew of others. Say nothing of the various 4x12's.

The only one in the house when I purchased the Axe FX Standard a muillllion years ago was the MOD 50. After 6 months of not turning it on, I sold it (and bought more guitars!)

Everyone's experience is different, there is no wrong or right on which you prefer. I still look around occasionally for a Tube amp <just to have one>, and 5 minutes later playing it I realize 'buy more guitars'.
 
I have the Axe FX running into a pair of CLR's.. I also have a fair size collection of various pedals and vintage amps. I prefer the Axe FX rig overall, especially when playing w/ a band.
 
I see post like this from time to time and I always ask my self why be scared of liking it better? God forbid someone like's it better, God forbid they don't have to worry about maintaining an amp and how tubes can sound different day to day. I think there is nothing wrong with liking it better
 
With the Fractal, the tone and the feel are there.

But FRFR vs. a real guitar cab, that is going to be up to you. There is no wrote answer. It's your personal preference.

And I am with you on the looks of heads and 4x12 cabs, love that look.
 
brokenvail said:
I see post like this from time to time and I always ask my self why be scared of liking it better? God forbid someone like's it better, God forbid they don't have to worry about maintaining an amp and how tubes can sound different day to day. I think there is nothing wrong with liking it better
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I'm scared because I just spent over 3k on a tube amp!
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
I'm scared because I just spent over 3k on a tube amp!
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If you stop and think about the big picture, it's obvious that modellers are the future and in a few years the bulk of amps used will be modellers in one form of another, for everyone. There's just so many things that are just better. This is the same as cars vs electric cars, vinyl vs cd's or cd's vs streaming music. But same as its obvious that this is the future it's equally obvious that there will always be a niche for the old way of doing it as well, especially in high end. Sure, we'll all drive electric cars most of the time and they will be better in every practical way, that doesn't mean you can't take your Shellby Cobra out on a weekend and enjoy the crap out of it, making some noise. So just because your 3k amp likely won't sound any better than what's available in the Axe Fx 2, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. There's still something very satisfying about doing things old-school and deal with the inherit problems of tube amps like you have to turn it up loud to sound good, they sound different every day because they are affected by humidity and other environment variables, you only have one or a couple of channels available and so on. But since you bought it - enjoy it while you have it! There will always be another amp or maybe next time a modeller in future. Nothing to be afraid of.
 
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