convincing the non-believers

clarky

clarky

Axe-Master
is it even worth trying???
in another forum I was talking to guys about amps and modelling and stuff..

it seems like there is a blatant refusal to believe that the Axe can be like a real amp..
"yeah it sounds great but it'll never feel the same" <-- comment from someone that's never played through an Axe

"it'll never have the guts at high volume" <-- from someone that's never used one live

"ok Clarky, so your tones actually do sound big and fat, and very cool but that only applies to the hi-gain tones"

"no, it sounds like you're going through pedals not an amp"
most likely cos they're hearing my 'post amp' signal processing [reverb etc]

I'm tempted to post a clip of my Axe with a VH4 all on it's own and say.. "this is my VH4"
what the chances that they say "yeah.. that's better.. you can really hear the valvey goodness.." lmao..

jeez...
it's worse than arguing with my mum...
you can never win...
 
I've tried many times to convince people about how the Axe sounds like a real amp, or that cables make a difference, string brands etc. If people stick their head in the sand and refuse to accept it, don't bother even talking to them. There are plenty of people who are totally convinced that all strings, cables, picks, woods, scale lenghts, cabinets or whatever sounds the same. The only one who gets upset or frustrated is YOU, so just let them live in denial. You'll be happier for it.
 
BBN said:
You should do exactly that....
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I hope you understand that you are fuelling my sense of mischeif..

and you know that this will go all wrong....

"yes that's a propper VH4.. and you can really hear the diference"

Clarky - actually guys.. this is still the Axe..

"YOU CHEATIN MTHR FKR ! ! YOU TRICKED US ! !"

followed by ill feeling... flaming.. trolling..
and Clarky becomes public enema no1

it'll not go well... feelings will get hurt..

EDIT: I really need to add this...
some of the guys in question are actually face to face pals... real nice guys.. talented too..
I really shouldn't be quite so cynical...
but it does frustrate me some
 
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nateb said:
Why bother... People seem to justify their gear purchase by ripping apart another persons buying decision.

Fuck it and fuck them and enjoy what you enjoy.

-Nate
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in all honesty....
I'm just waving the FAS flag a little...

cos it's a flag that I think is worth waving...

EDIT: I'm an endorsee signed up to Marshall, Roland / Boss UK, Ernie Ball USA, and have sponcorships with Bulldog pickups and Morgan Guitar Works guitars..
I really am fussy about the stuff I get behind..
I seriously don't get behind manufacturers whose products I don't believe in just for the sake of a sponcorship etc..
ok so I'm not signed up to FAS, but it's still a unit that I have great belief in..
and so I'll wave the flag some..
 
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clarky said:
is it even worth trying???
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I stopped a long time ago. They either like or they don't and I don't waste my time trying to sell them on it.

But I'll tell you this: anyone who's plugged in to my Fractal units has never walked away *not* loving what they heard and "felt".
 
iaresee said:
But I'll tell you this: anyone who's plugged in to my Fractal units has never walked away *not* loving what they heard and "felt".
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I can only find my self violently agreeing with this...

and this comes from personal experience..
having tried out NiceChris's Axe..
and then having had to pack up my kit, pss off home without one..
 
I just went thru this very thing with a friend of mine who has been a long time Marshall user (over 30 years)
He gave me the old "Ya I've tried a bunch of the modeling stuff and when you turn it up it just doesn't hold it's own against a real amp."
so tonight I am going to his house with my rig and seeing what he has to say. I am going to test my JVM path into his 1969 baksetweave 4X12 (yes he actually has two of them)
and compare it to his real JVM.
this will be a good test for my ears and hands too as we have several power amps to run the Axe thru
as well as several cabs.
I get no argument that for recording this uint kicks ass, he thinks it's not a good unit to use live.
we shall see.
 
I never really tried to push anybody in that direction, however if someone has more questions I am more than eager to answer.

What will sometimes annoy me, someone telling me it can’t sound good as a tube amp. Keep in mind the few times this has happened was from people who never changed a tube on an amp till it died and even then, only that one tube. But then I remember were the comment is coming from (a person that is clueless in maximizing their own gear.)

Play with what makes you happy. Don’t be eager to push people into it, it can make some push back that much harder.
Most important treat it like the best kept secret.
“Oh, you don’t like it, ok that’s cool” let the unit talk for itself.
 
You can not change people's attitudes unless they are on the fence to begin with. Tubes are a religion to many, and as I'm sure your realize, not too many people convert religions. What FAS and other modelers going for them is that younger users don't have decades of tube usage to hold dear to, they were born after the first POD and many have NEVER had an opportunity to open up a tube amp. I had over 30 tube amps I loved, but with venues closing, requiring you to play quieter at dinner, etc...the opportunity to open up a Diezel VH4S was nil. Guess what? It and all tube amps sound like shit on 2, might as well use a POD.

To me it came down to the flexibility, the fact no one in the audience cares and that good tube volume was unachievable for me. The Axe is only 99% of the way there, but that 1% loss is light years ahead of a Super Reverb on 1.5.
 
I let my tone speak for itself.

And I let my back rest since I don't have to carry a ton of gear any more.
 
You could post a "which is the valve amp sample". What I liked about the one that Cliff posted recently was that the most noticeable difference was the mains hum.
 
I get so excited about tone that I used to basically bash people over the head with it. "Dude, the tones sound great." "Thanks man! I've worked really hard to find my sound and now I have this digital modeler and.... blah blah blah blah" nobody wants to hear that.

I say NOTHING about tone at gigs anymore. When people come up and say, "Wow, those tones are great" I say, "Thank you". That's it. If they further inquire, I simply tell them that it's a modeler called the Axe FX II and it's pretty amazing. People are a LOT more receptive to ideas if you simply let them ask the questions and you answer directly, but enthusiastically instead of going off about how amazing your new machine is.

In the end, I don't really care what other guitarists are using. I really like what I'm using and I have little to gain from convincing others to also use it.
 
To me, I don't care if it's valves or digital. If I can get the sound and feel I'm looking for, then that's all that matters. For the past few years, the idea that digital sounds better to my ears has been growing more and more. Not only is modeling more convenient in just about every way to tubes, but I don't miss all the noise from analog gear.

No one can deny that modelling has really come into its own in the last year or so. Another thing that can not be denied is that modeling continues to improve and mature as tube amps rely on the same old technology.

I also feel a lot of haters comments are derived from jealousy. Who doesn't want a magical box containing 70+ amps that are meticulously modeled and takes all the guess work out of playing live and recording. It just makes sense.

In the end, I suggest doing whatever you feel is right for you and not caring if someone doesn't agree with your choice. Who cares? At the end of the day, you're the one smiling with your Axe FX.
 
bkrumme said:
I let my tone speak for itself.
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Amen.

Honestly, if you need to convince someone in any other way besides the end result, then they aren't ever going to see it your way. And really, I don't give a rip if nobody else wants to play the same gear I have. That's why I'm me and they're them.
 
Interesting when it comes to peoples belief systems, whether its religion or a subject like this. "when someone is ready(mentally) it only takes one word. if they're not, a thousand makes no difference...' or something like that. I've learned this the hard way and it is indeed frustrating. Play what you like and let the results speak for themselves!
 
I say let people make up their own mind. If they're interested then let them try it out, if they ask questions about it then answer them, don't shove it down their throats.

Spence
 
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