"competing" AC30 clip

pima1234

pima1234

Fractal Fanatic
Okay, for those who continue to follow the TGP threads, here's a clip that someone was proud enough of to post, using AC30, some delay, and a loop with that other recently release floor modeler:



Does it sound bad? No. Haven't we been hearing clips like that from the Axe FX Standard/Ultra? I think so. It's so far away from what we've come to appreciate from Fractal Audio. I'll say it again, "There is just no comparison!". That clip does not just sound like a well-miked AC30. It still sounds generic. There are clips and vids available using the Axe FX that just blow this out of the water. No fanboyism here. Just the truth.

Mods, feel free to remove this if it's just inappropriate or something.
 
before this thread disappears, i'll just say the human ear is a strange thing. tell it what it's supposed to hear, then make the sound, and the ear will definitely hear it.

if you said "here's a fender twin clip" people will agree with how much it has all the fender qualities we know and love.

but the reality is that things can sound "enough" like a _____ that people are content so none of it really matters.
 
That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't know this is supposed to sound like an AC30 unless I had read that (and the delay to sound like U2).

Yes, before this thread disappears... Eh, it probably should!
 
AC30 or AyeSeeSchmirty..? It matters not. Absolutely uncanny or nothing like..? Again, it matters not...
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Now, does it sound 'pleasing'..? Or perhaps more to the point, if that's coming out of the FOH system so the audience can dance / sing along, will said audience give a subsequent flying hoot what device / boutique gear it's been created through / by..? Nope, they will not...
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I liked the sound of the clip, but can't say how accurate it is. L id like to hear a post of an AC30 made with an AxeFX to compare. Still, they're just clips.
 
Having played a 64 vox, a 1995 vox, and a 2002 vox ac 30 - there is nothing about this clip that says AC30 to me.

But it sounds fine, I just wouldn't peg it as a Vox tone.
 
For me, it definitely does not have the character of an AC30.

The clips I heard from the Standard/Ultra sound better. I went back and listened to some of the various U2 clips from years ago.
 
Let me post some of what goes on in the mindless debate over these two new floorboards on The Gear Page.

I posted this:
"Of course, it still won't be a fair comparison unless the IRs are the same. That really is a huge factor and cannot be dismissed by either "side" (so to speak).

What it will take are some true pro level comparisons, done scientifically.

Until then, I'm completely content and curious at the same time."

user tripp2k then took it upon himself to post this lovely bit of prose:
"I don't want science near my art and, like the other dude who creams AxeFx every second, your fanboyism is going on my ignore list. Tone it down."

WTF!!! Wow. Gotta love it. Those who don't know may never know thanks to their stubborn ignorance, apparently.
 
I mean, honestly, it's to the point now where I'm putting this on my own ignore list. I was interested, but every clip I hear sounds plastic. The TGP thread has become hilarious and more obnoxious than it was before unit started to ship (or, have they?! lol).

We all know what the Axe FX does. We therefore know what the AX8 will sound like. No doubt it will be awesome.

I hear significantly better clips than anything I've heard from Helix (and there are some better sounding ones than the above) from a small format modeler that runs around the price of the HD500.

So, what it boils down to is that if great amp tones are the goal, I know what company/product to continue avoiding.
 
I think that one of the biggest variables, that is not recognised often enough, is the person who programmed the patch.

How good is their ear?
How comfortable are they with the tools on offer?
How much time have they invested in learning the tools?
What were they trying to achieve? Broken down in many, many, many ways that are too numerous to list in full but include:
• Mimic a specific song?
• Based upon a specific amp and chain?
• Close enough for rock 'n' roll?
• Trying to out-do another competing product and being biased against it?

I find these discussion to be circular in nature as they rarely go anywhere fruitful and studies are rarely done in a rigorous and scientific manner. For the large part, it is simply people worrying about things that they have no need to worry about and trying to re-justify purchases that they already justified for themselves.
 
Agreed with both of the above replies. That's almost certainly the case here. We'll know more when pro level demos are available, ideally with quality 3rd party IRs.
 
I went full bore and start a thread on The Gear Page called The Modeling Wars. We'll see how long that lasts. First comment not from me was telling. Remind me why I still visit TGP again? Really though, I hope it turns into something productive. I started it, but I don't plan to comment on it any further. It would be nice to just read some level-headed discussions.

Edit: I said I wouldn't respond to posts on my thread, and I have. lol. Sometimes, TGP reminds me of Harmony Central.
 
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pima1234 said:
Agreed with both of the above replies. That's almost certainly the case here. We'll know more when pro level demos are available, ideally with quality 3rd party IRs.
Click to expand...

Thanks, although I'm not 100% certain that even 'pro level' demos are more than a little useful when it comes to comparing products. My reasoning as to why I see things this way (today) is given in the post I wrote and with which you agreed. :lol

A scientifically controlled and rigorous A/B/X test, which would focus upon a couple of different cleans, some mid-gains and some Brootalz, would do a world more good. It would also be nice to see a chart of comparative features of the products under review and then to have some audio or practical examples as to what those features bring the user.
 
fremen said:
95 % of the time, a clip is more representative of the guy doing it than of the gear used
Click to expand...

Quoting this because it's dead on. I have been saying that clips tell me more about the player than the gear for years. I don't use clips to judge anything, let alone something as variable as a modeler...

Having said that, the clip in the OP does not sound like an AC30 to my ears.
 
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@ethomas1013: Exactly. I can pick one of the AC30 type models and a comparable IR and get a very convincing U2ish sound in about one minute with the Axe FX.

A good AC30 model has been elusive outside of the Axe FX, for me at least. I could get pretty close with Kemper.
 
Oh dear... Hoping this is also just the user, and the fact the we hear way too much of the untreated room in this clip:

 
Gotta stir the pot, don'tcha know...

Seriously though, for amp tones (at the very least), I think the choice is blatantly clear.
 
Class-A amps are hard to model. They rely primarily on the power amp for distortion and there's a lot of subtleties in the power amp that give the character. I'd be surprised if any products other than ours are actually considering these things as it takes a lot of CPU power to simulate.
 
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