CLRs and Amp In The Room tone. I think I've figured something out.

dschaaf said:
This is fascinating stuff..... just to clarify, the routing is as per the image attached above with the signal going from amp through cab as normal with the amp also running through the filter in parallel..... correct?

Secondly, Jim, what 12" sub are you using with your CLR's?

Thanks,
D
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Yes! The picture of Axe Edit above correctly shows the routing and Filter block settings.
 
Not everything is about the CLR --

Maybe my humor does not translate well to the sensitive CLR crowd -- sorry.

That being said --- if this does work (as you described) -- you have hit on the holiest of grails and could be worth a significant amount of money.

It is great that you want to share and discuss on a forum .... but ...

My advise to you is to test it .. test it ... and test it..... and if it works go talk to a lawyer and whatever you do ... don't share it or discuss it on an open forum! Because the ramifications of a discovery of this nature go beyond a simple FRFR monitor (live reinforcement, home stereos, car audio, mobile phones, conference room speakers, home theater systems, computer speakers etc)

Because if it does work ... somebody is go steal it from you and make a pile of money... and guess what ... you will not even get credit for it let alone a dime from your "eureka" moment!

I have seen this time and time again.



GreatGreen said:
I can understand your unwillingness to listen to a word I'm saying as I've read your previous posts specifically attacking Atomic, CLRs, and all FRFR approaches in general after having personally tried and failed to get them to sound how you wanted, due to your own personally admitted lack of effort in doing so.

Doesn't mean other people can't get creative and figure things out using methods that never occurred to you.

And I'm not breaking any laws of physics here. I'm literally describing a way to turn up the bass in a speaker system designed to handle bass in the frequency ranges I mention, while handling a lot of volume, and while evenly distributing the highs. It's a recipe for a huge sound, whether you want to believe it or not.

Nothing impossible about it.
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Wonder if adding a delay or multi-delay in series with the filter can simulate the delay in the bass created by the cab, wall, floor reflections, etc.
 
Admin M@ said:
Not that I endorse this approach, but just an FYI that Cab-Lab would let you mix your lowpass low-end right into an IR ;-)
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But you can't adjust it on the fly or after the IR is created, right? It would seem to be much more editable separate like the OP has it.
 
Ok I see why you like this.
I just tried it with one of my JVM Patches thru the Seismic 12 I have here.
Through my rig (anyway) even at very moderate volume, I don't really hear a big bass boost , what I'm hearing is all of those
high "metallic" sounding frequencies that are a part of FRFR close mic'ing gone. I use a low pass on a lot of my patches to begin with but not in parallel like you are here.
going to have to look into this a bit more.
 
LVC said:
My advise to you is to test it .. test it ... and test it..... and if it works go talk to a lawyer and whatever you do ... don't share it or discuss it on an open forum! Because the ramifications of a discovery of this nature go beyond a simple FRFR monitor (live reinforcement, home stereos, car audio, mobile phones, conference room speakers, home theater systems, computer speakers etc)

Because if it does work ... somebody is go steal it from you and make a pile of money... and guess what ... you will not even get credit for it let alone a dime from your "eureka" moment!

I have seen this time and time again.
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Meh. I think you're making a big to-do over not a helluva lot. All that is happening is, essentially, focused low end is being blended to the typical amp/cabinet mix. What may be unique is that he's taking this low-end split off of the amp, and circumventing the cabinet block, which is a nifty idea, and a great way to bring back low frequencies into the sound. I would hazard to guess that GreatGreen is not the first person to think of something like this (no offense, GG). Parallel blending of tones, and regions of frequencies, happens all day every day in some way, shape or form. It is a good idea IMO, and if it helps make for a positive experience, hell yeah!
 
jimfist said:
Meh. I think you're making a big to-do over not a helluva lot. All that is happening is, essentially, focused low end is being blended to the typical amp/cabinet mix. What may be unique is that he's taking this low-end split off of the amp, and circumventing the cabinet block, which is a nifty idea, and a great way to bring back low frequencies into the sound. I would hazard to guess that GreatGreen is not the first person to think of something like this (no offense, GG). Parallel blending of tones, and regions of frequencies, happens all day every day in some way, shape or form. It is a good idea IMO, and if it helps make for a positive experience, hell yeah!
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Hah, no offense taken at all man. In fact if anybody would demonstrate an easier way to add the low end back into the FRFR sound I'd be all for hearing how. Maybe a slightly more subtle, "more realistic" way to do this would be to blend in a 1x15 or 4x10 bass cab IR that will naturally cover the lower end of the frequency spectrum with the regular guitar cab IR.

And maybe I just tried this out because I'm not using the right IRs in the first place! But still, blending in the low end of the raw amp block with regular IRs definitely works for me right now, and to my ear sounds totally realistic if it's done with some subtlety and restraint. Maybe I'll find a random IR tomorrow that totally negates this entire issue, which to be honest would be fine with me because it will mean I won't have to fuss with the inelegance of splitting and recombining the signal, but for now this trick works great! It does everything I want and nothing I don't.


vvv Yeah I figured it was. No misunderstanding at all man. :encouragement:
 
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FWIW, GreatGreen,

Meh. I think you're making a big to-do over not a helluva lot. All that is happening is, essentially, focused low end is being blended to the typical amp/cabinet mix. What may be unique is that he's taking this low-end split off of the amp, and circumventing the cabinet block, which is a nifty idea, and a great way to bring back low frequencies into the sound.
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was in response to LVC's comment.
 
Random thought from an infrequent poster - would this be similar to using the AIR parameter in the cab block and setting the frequency accordingly?
 
ProfEmerald said:
Random thought from an infrequent poster - would this be similar to using the AIR parameter in the cab block and setting the frequency accordingly?
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No, because the trick here is to bypass the cab, and the low end attenuation a mic on the grill results in.
 
Just skimmed through this really quick and I see where the OP is going. I would bet that the new Hirez IR's that Cliff has been working on will help in the endever. I find it hard to add back information that is not there or hardly there in the first place.
 
It's all in how you "sculpt" your sound... the right amp, the right cab sim, the right use of FX and sometimes EQ... make it sound like a record, and it will sound the same live, on a good system... if you sculpt your sound to sound like a raw amp, you are at the mercy of the sound man's idea of good guitar tone... YMMV...
 
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