Calling all Funksters ! !

clarky said:
wow..... how cool's that....
they used to rehearse at the studio I worked at

I know most folk think of only the singers, but the rest of the band were superb...
actually... their guitarist was awesome.. very "Benson-ish".. really nice fella too..
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that may have been where i did the audition....massive rehearsal complex in town somewhere...can't remember where it was now. i do remember the guy they eventually hired had a little feature in Guitarist Magazine...
 
anyway...so....how's the funk coming bro??!! you on the one? or laying back on the two for the James Brown tip? :)
 
the big complex could have been John Henry's
they used to rehearse at Clink, London Bridge.. I know this cos I worked there at the time...

so.... I am totally on the one.....
the cleans are recorded.. and sound really sweet...
I'm going to try my "add JCM800 and run" experiment tonight..
also.. this track has a couple of power chords in it.. and as you'd expect, my current presets are a bit to 'angry' for this band.. lmao..
so I'm doing a little tone searching to find a nice 'crunch' tone for the job..
the VH4 ch2 is working and so is the 5153Green
I still need to try a few other canditates before I decide
 
jeez tell me about it.....

you hear something and love it...
then create something similar and love different qualities about it...
and then something else...
it's nuts... lmao
 
oh... my... fkn... god.... lmao

the JCM800 / 1960A worked....
it's nuts... lmao...

proves my theory..
stupidity is the path to innovation..

EDIT:
Hiwatt to the left
JCM800 to the right

they chime like a bell
 
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notalemming said:
Try the Brit JM45. It gives a nice, big, clean & punchy Fender sound. I don't use cab sims so I cant' help there. Will have to try the Hiwatt again. Never had much luck with that amp in the past.
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top call... I really liked the JM45... very nice..
after the Hiwatt I'd have to say that's now my next fave clean amp
the high end break up on it is wonderful too..
liking this one a lot....
 
clarky said:
top call... I really liked the JM45... very nice..
after the Hiwatt I'd have to say that's now my next fave clean amp
the high end break up on it is wonderful too..
liking this one a lot....
Click to expand...

Cool, I never would have thought I would like that one either. There have been several surprises in this box with amps I never thought I would like. I also like the 1987X bright & the real surprise was the Dizzy v4 ch2! A friend of mine used to rep Diesel here in the States & I got to meet Peter Diezel & try out several amps. I loved the crunch & hi-gain sounds but the clean sounds just weren't what I was looking for. The Axe model sounds great clean though.
 
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i was going to mention the JM45 as well. i've got some lovely clean sounds from that amp. really fat.
 
"Fellas, I'm ready to get up and do MY thang!"

clarky said:
oh... my... fkn... god.... lmao

the JCM800 / 1960A worked....
it's nuts... lmao...

proves my theory..
stupidity is the path to innovation..

EDIT:
Hiwatt to the left
JCM800 to the right

they chime like a bell
Click to expand...

clarky,

So this seems like a bit of a different style for you from your previous tone-quests?!? Good on you for "mixing-it-up!" I love to play different styles too...

One thing that you and simeon seem to be correctly onto (without actually spelling it out) is that "clean" funk-guitar really isn't always "clean," if you know I mean, Gene - lol! There should be a little "grease/grit" to the tone IMHO...Also, no effects (except for maybe a little appropriate mix-environment as you/clarky alluded to) is probably a good (authentic) idea!

I think sometime in the 80's, (probably in L.A!) dance/pop-music was being produced with nods to the past (Motown; James Brown; Isley Brothers, Earth Wind & Fire, etc.) but with "squeaky-clean/glassy-sheen" production-values (I.E: Michael Jackson; Madonna; Gloria Estefan; etc.) Along the way, someone (or the producers and the scene collectively) sucked the life out of Funk! (It actually wasn't funk anymore, but since it was the closest thing vocally & rhythmically to funk on the airwaves, that's what people assumed funk then sounded like!) FWIW, I myself was totally guilty of such a tone-deaf misconception as I had my:

EMG-loaded strat->ADA MP1->smiley-EQ->too-compressed->too-chorused->Digitech 128+ verb->S.S. Amp->etc..."Guilty-As-Charged" - LOL!

But then the more I dug back into the landmark/iconic-recordings:(Motown; James Brown; Isley Brothers, Earth Wind & Fire, etc.) the more I realized how WRONG I (and many others in the late 80's!) were about our "funk-sounds!"

Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge that those 80's producers/musicians were probably trying to sound new/different from their predecessors....I mean there's no sense in replicating what had already been done, so I get that. However, I think that they went overboard sonically (too clean, overly chorused & compressed, too much reverb in general) as well as performance-wise (those original funk-masters performed as bands essentially "live" - whether or not they were an actual band like for example "The Funk Brothers" of Motown)...They weren't an actual band, but they did so many sessions together (and laid 'em ALL down LIVE) that the performances had a little of that impossible to quantify "funky-swing/feel" to them...Know what I mean? Once Multi-tracking and overdubbing/punching became possible, (approx. mid-70's-to-early-90's) producers got carried away with precision, which can sometimes be a good thing, but sometimes can also "suck the life out of" an otherwise "live-performance." More recently (say in the last 15-years approx.) the advent of Pro-Tools/DAW's and quantization/time-alignment as well as vocal/pitch-correction has added another layer of "potential lifelessness and talent-masking" to these modern recordings...Just sayin...I thhink (lucky for all of us as fans) that "the cream generally rises to the top!"

Best of luck clarky, and thanks to simeon and others for their insights on this "funky" subject as well!

My advice (although I'm no Al McKay or Catfish Collins - LOL!): Keep it "gritty," (NOT glassy,) avoid the modulation-based FX, respect the space/rests (IOW, Don't automatically scratch-your-balls-off...unless they're really that itchy).....and of course, "groove-your-ASS-off" baby - LOL!

Bill
 
the best piece of advice i got re funk guitar rhythm playing was from a drummer. he told me to stop playing constant 16ths with my right hand....you know...scraping across the strings to get that chakka chakka sound all the time. once you stop doing that, the space just opens up....

obviously sounds great with a wah, but in moderation...you don't have to do it across the whole bar...

this was when i first started playing funk...i'd just got out of a band playing stuff that was a cross between Zeppelin and Rush and i didn't know shitski about funk... :)
 
Clean is a relative term I guess. A lot of vintage late 60s & 70s funk has some grit to it for sure. Listen to Sly Stone's Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin). Freddie's guitar is pretty raspy sounding but it works so perfectly for that song. Miles away from the 80s squeaky clean approach. I like both for different reasons & different songs but I never did like the squished to death compression! Early on there weren't a lot of effects either. I just had the reverb in my amp (when I had the twin) a Vox Crybaby wah wah & mid 70s a Maestro Phase shifter & that was it. It wasn't until the very late 80s or early 90s that I had any rack gear.
 
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Bill - haaa.. I have many strings to my bow so to speak...
I've played in all kinds of bands.. rock, metal, blues, funk, pop, fusion, prog, reggae and I also studied classical music at the University of London
although rock / metal resides firmly at the core of my musical heart, to be honest I love most types of music..
I just love to create and love to play..
I've had some of the most amazing impromptu jams...
with an Irish Trad band in Dublin, with an American Delta Bluesman in [of all places] Italy, with Zulu percussionists in London, with Berber tribesman in North Africa and some some country boys down in Texas... and much more... I love it all...
when it comes to funk, for me it's Maceo Parker.. I love the rawness..
and I think this is where a hint of power amp grit on the clean tone really works..
it's essentially an amp set clean being pushed hard.. and the Axe-II does this like no other.. jeez what a box this is...
just as I think I'm really getting to know it, it goes and says "did ya know I can do this too??" and blows me away some more..
it's almost as if an entire lifetime is just not quite enough to fully explore all of it's possibilities.. lol..

Sim - before I was a guitarist I was a drummer.. I love drums and percussion..
funk guitar hooks me into the rhythm section in a way that no other style can and brings out the drummer in me..
as soon as I discovered funk guitar I knew instantly that we were going to be friends..
so it comes as no surprise that your advice came from a drummer.. cos funk is all about timing, phrasing and space..
 
simeon said:
the best piece of advice i got re funk guitar rhythm playing was from a drummer. he told me to stop playing constant 16ths with my right hand....you know...scraping across the strings to get that chakka chakka sound all the time. once you stop doing that, the space just opens up....

obviously sounds great with a wah, but in moderation...you don't have to do it across the whole bar...

this was when i first started playing funk...i'd just got out of a band playing stuff that was a cross between Zeppelin and Rush and i didn't know shitski about funk... :)
Click to expand...

Never been into it that much (unless you wanna call early U2 for funk), I guess closest would be when I listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers when "Blood Sugar Sex Magik" came out. But even back then I didn´t try or play funk regularly. However I did use my wah pedal quite lot then (was the only pedal I got). And I´ve always seen myself as rhythm guitarist (lead/solo ain´t my thing really) and always been into trying to coloring my chords and the space around/between them with melodies/rhythms/sounds whatever the song requires (and whatever I´m up to at the time).

I have found that it´s quite fun to add "chakka-chakka/damped-strings" rhythms while playing groovy stoner bass(-wannabe) figures.

1. Fire up a half dirty/clean preset with a beefy and gritty Leslie (different rates at the rotor and horn, not too big but different).
2. Let loose your steady (left hand) stoner bass figures on low strings and align yourself (with whatever you´re playing) in the groove with the rotor rate.
3.a Release your (right hand) "chakka" rhythms on the damped high strings. But stress it up so you are playing twice as fast compared to what is needed to play your bass figure.
3.b Depending on what figure/rhythm you´re doing on low strings, you may have to alternate your (right hand) up- and down-stroke patterns to acheive the "chakka" rhythm you want to apply.

Warning, this alternating might mess it up in your brain and hands at certain occasions but probably a piece of cake if you are or have been (seriously) at the drums sometimes.

The rotor (which you are grooving your bass figure with) is in "correct" rate/tempo, but since you´re playing your "chakka/damped-string" rhythms at twice the rate/tempo it will be hopefully audibly affected by the horns rate (set at another rate/tempo, probably a bit higher than your rotor). You may even get away with playing constant 16ths...

/Mike
 
simeon said:
he told me to stop playing constant 16ths with my right hand....you know...scraping across the strings to get that chakka chakka sound all the time. once you stop doing that, the space just opens up....
Click to expand...

this is killer...
the point here is that there are only 16 1/16ths in a bar..
they will ultimately all get used by someone.. but share the wealth... lol..
we don't all have to use them all, all of the time..

great funk rhythm sections know who's using all the space to greatest effect at that given moment..
so you know when to sit back and let someone else take charge, and when it's a good time for your part / tambre to consume the bulk of the space..
and it allows you to better play with and across each other..
a key part that's overlooked is the interaction between the drums, bass and guitar because in funk they can all be percussive..

a great example of this inter-weaving of many simple parts is Pick up the Pieces
simple.. yet monster..
 
clarky said:
this is killer...
the point here is that there are only 16 1/16ths in a bar..
they will ultimately all get used by someone.. but share the wealth... lol..
we don't all have to use them all, all of the time..

great funk rhythm sections know who's using all the space to greatest effect at that given moment..
so you know when to sit back and let someone else take charge, and when it's a good time for your part / tambre to consume the bulk of the space..
and it allows you to better play with and across each other..
a key part that's overlooked is the interaction between the drums, bass and guitar because in funk they can all be percussive..

a great example of this inter-weaving of many simple parts is Pick up the Pieces
simple.. yet monster..
Click to expand...

One of my favorite examples is Tower Of Power's Squib Cakes off the Back To Oakland album. Especially cool what the guitar & drums are doing during the organ solo! Most (not all) of what they did I really like. They are a prime example to bust the tired old "less is more" cliche. There are not too many bands that groove as hard as they do. Lots of great examples out there, AWB, James Brown, Rufus, EWF, Sly, Larry Graham, Parliament, Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Cold Blood, etc..............
 
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notalemming said:
One of my favorite examples is Tower Of Power's Squib Cakes off the Back To Oakland album. Especially cool what the guitar & drums are doing during the organ solo! Most (not all) of what they did I really like. They are a prime example to bust the tired old "less is more" cliche. There are not too many bands that groove as hard as they do. Lots of great examples out there, AWB, James Brown, Rufus, EWF, Sly, Larry Graham, Parliament, Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Cold Blood, etc..............
Click to expand...

ahhhh.... yeahh....... cool as.. ! !
 
when I've sorted this song, I'll talk to the band to find out if they'll allow me to post a little clip..

if so, I can show the Hiwatt clean, the JCM with the hint of grit and then how they sound together in the mix..

but I need to do the 'please miss' stuff first cos I don't completely own this music
 
cool...can't wait to hear it!

love TOP by the way. we used to do Soul Vaccination, What is Hip and Don't Change Horses. i'll see if i can dig up some recordings...
 
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