brittle highs

Singtall

Singtall

Experienced
Vendor
i just finally got a chance to hook up to my studio monitors and the monitors quickly revealed that most of my presets are just brittle on the highs. perfect for thrash tones, but i was actually going for smooth crunch tones. i have struggled to get the highs right with every firmware update. i know the problem is all me, but it still sucks. i believe this is one of the main reasons that people sell the axe-fx II.....just not knowing how to dial it in. i'm not a newb at dialing in presets, but i fear that i have been a victim of too many gear changes at one time. i got an axe-fx II and new Audio Technica M50 headphones at the same time, then i got new pickups soon after that. the headphones alone are most of my problems, because i still don't know how to eq around what i'm hearing. i'm about to go back to my old standard headphones and see what i can do to retweak my presets.

it's so frustrating to dial in presets that sound awesome on these new headphones, then go to the gig only to have to tweak some more, then go into the studio only to be totally disgusted.

the final straw for me was yesterday; i played at church and couldn't find one preset to get it done to my liking. then i got home and hooked up my studio monitors to get used to them so i could tweak my friend's new digitech rp500....only to hear his factory tone sound warmer than the axe-fx II with my presets. it was enough to make me want to sell the axe-fx and go back to the digitech pedals or eleven rack. i decided to try try again and dial it up one more time before doing anything i would regret.

i just wanted to air out my thoughts in case anyone else went through the same struggles; maybe someone could offer some advice? maybe i can help someone else once i get my bearings straight.
 
In order to make the AxeFx II sound right to me with headphones, monitor or PA, I take 4-5db off everything 4k and above on the global eq. I wouldn't say that I am typical of others as I seem to be very treble sensitive, but once I make that eq adjustment all of my patches sound good to me including factory presets. For what it's worth.
 
the guys who seem happiest on this forum are usually the ones keeping everything as simple as possible. Does tweaking involve a lot of work for you?

Maybe the problem is with the impulse response you are using?

Lastly, the constant updates can make things exciting yet counterproductive at the same time. If you find a tone you like, maybe hold off updating for a while?
 
Hi, when you played at your church, what was your set up ? FRFR Powered Monitor or Power Amp and Cab ?
 
Sometimes it's better to start from scratch then to adjust what you have already spent time on tuning especially after a FW update.
 
JJunkie said:
the guys who seem happiest on this forum are usually the ones keeping everything as simple as possible.
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for me that is a 100% yes. I play in a cover band and my presets are simple and duplicate what I have been doing for years with amps and pedalboards


JJunkie said:
Does tweaking involve a lot of work for you?
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Yes again -- for me it is painful -- I am not a tweaker. Every time I venture into the land of exotica I screw things up. I keep the patches I am going to use at gigs as simple as possible. I have a "lab" section where I experiment .. but to date all my experiments have been failures :lol I am hoping as I gain more experience I can do some fancier stuff -- but right now my presets represent who I am -- a meat and potatoes pub band guitar player.

JJunkie said:
the constant updates can make things exciting yet counterproductive at the same time. If you find a tone you like, maybe hold off updating for a while?
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constant updates that make the product better and remove bugs are great (keep them coming)-- you just have to have a plan to deal with them. If you have just a few presets like me -- it is not a big deal. After major updates I always reset my axe.
 
I own the same headphones as the OP, they are nice but you cannot use them as accurate and honest monitors.

You *must* dial up your presets at over 80db and then test them at gig levels to be sure of what you have, what you've done then test them against live recordings of your choice (or at least program material) to understand how your tones will work in a mix.

Dialing up presets for Direct-to-FOH is a lot of work up front in understanding what you need to do and how; then it is a breeze on the gig because it is consistent from room to room and - assuming you did your job correctly - you'll never have to tweak at all on the gig; big or small, indoor or out because everything is nailed down and consistent.
 
Scott's right - If your tones are harsh in the high end when playing at gig volumes, you may have created your presets at a lower volume. I'm not saying this happened to you, but I've seen it happen to many (aka Fletcher-Munson curve). I've been there before.....Always create your tones at the volume you plan on playing at. Unfortunately, our ears do not maintain the same response as sound pressure increases.

I recommend those who are interested in setting levels in the studio, look up Bob Katz k-system.
 
Hang in there Ross!

Pick ups have the such a huge effect IMO. I have presets that sound SOO GOOD on on one guitar and sound absolutely TERRIBLE on one of my hotter PUP guitars. I know the YOU know this ....just reminding you :)
 
i tried my old headphones and absolutely hated everything about the axe-fx! lol. hold on....more testing....

i went back to the eleven rack using the old headphones and everything sounded so much better. when i switched to the new headphones, guess what? everything was brittle sounding. the answer: the new headphones overhype the highs....stop using them!

i'm gonna have to either use my reference monitors or my full range speakers that i gig with.

i haven't found a IR that sounds so warm that i can really crank the amp highs like i might normally do using my real cabinet. so i'm on the lookout for a darker sounding IR too. i might be one of those guys that needs to kill some highs on the global eq too.

you know that something is wrong when EVERY preset that i tried sounds terrible. the ones i made sound a lot better than anything else i tried, but still not right.

i will tweak again with real speakers and see how that goes.
 
Scott Peterson said:
You *must* dial up your presets at over 80db and then test them at gig levels to be sure of what you have....
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This is everything here. Much hand wringing is done over 'bedroom volume over gig volume.' Low volume tweaking DOESN'T WORK for tweaking Live. Turn it up, turn it up, turn it up. Patches that sound squishy low volume suddenly are brittle at high volume. We've all been there.
 
Simplicity is the way to go but you could try some hi cut in the amp and cab blocks; remember, guitar speakers are usually only efficient between ~70 Hz and ~5,500 Hz.

Ultimately, I think your problem is improper gain staging; you are amplifying a very quiet noise which emphasizes the highs.

I tend to make my presets so the output indicates 0 dB max on my Mackie mixer with the Axe's Output 1 knob at noon; this translates to almost 0 dB inside the Axe, just below clipping. Then, the Matrix amp faithfully recreates the tone at almost any output level; FM curves taken into consideration. Usually, noon on the amp is good, definitely borderline deafening. Most of the time it never goes above 9 o'clock.
 
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What's with using headphones. Headphones suck! If I couldn't play thru monitors/cabs & was forced to use headphones, I just wouldn't play. Do you live in an apartment by any chance?

Apartments & headphones suck!!! lol
 
For good sound playing live dial in your presets on what ever you are going to be playing the Axe FXII through live, and dial them in at gig volume.
Make sure your custom presets are not clipping. I do the obvious like turning down the treble or presence if a preset sounds too brittle, and if that doesn't solve it I use the GEQ or PEQ. I sometimes limit the frequency range of the speaker cab IR. Sometimes little or no tweaking is needed and sometimes some combination of all of the above is needed.
 
hoth said:
In order to make the AxeFx II sound right to me with headphones, monitor or PA, I take 4-5db off everything 4k and above on the global eq. I wouldn't say that I am typical of others as I seem to be very treble sensitive, but once I make that eq adjustment all of my patches sound good to me including factory presets. For what it's worth.
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supersonic said:
I'd start in the global eq bring everything 2k and above down about 2db.
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Totally disagreeing with these suggestions.

My advice would be "fixing" the issue at preset level, with global EQ neutral. Then, if necessary, use the Global EQ to finetune your overall tone when gigging / rehearsing.

The reason that I disagree is that when you take down frequencies at global level on forehand, you're starting off on the wrong foot when editing presets. If the preset's too dark, you'll bump Treble/Presence but in fact you're compensating for the Global EQ settings.
Also, the Global EQ affects all tones, so your clean tones, synth tones, simulated acoustic presets etc. will be "crippled".

Now there's not a lot to fix probably. For example, create a simple preset consisting only of an Amp block with Friedman BE, and a Cab block set to #103. Increase Treble and Presence in the Amp block to 5 or 6, depending on the guitar. That's all. At this point you should have a great beefy 'rock" tone. Not raspy, not shrill, and not too dark either. If not, there's something wrong with your configuration or your connections.

And as mentioned by Scott and others, if you create tones using headphones or low level at home, the result will always be too shrill at gigging volume. Dial in your tones at gig volume and then fight the urge to adjust them (increase bass/treble) when you're at home.
 
Two different sized monitors, two different tone results. Earphones vs speakers? Seriously? Don't buy the hype. Earphones are excellent today, but they do not sound like house speakers.

You do have to keep in mind what a certain PA or monitor does to your tone. For instance, I tweak on an Atomic FRFR ... but over the band PA any given patch has a lot more high end. I compensate for that in my patches, and test over the PA at practice. Not easy making the perfect solution ... but I can tell you the 11 Rack, and any other digital modeler, wil experience the same problems. I owned the 11R and a few Line6 products. It has nothing to do with the modeler, and everything to do with what you are listening through.
 
I've run direct to PA for the last 17 years. Therefore, every 'tone' I've ever dialled up on any gadget have been focused on getting that sound sounding 'right' in terms of guitar playing and the full band

I've never once had to amend a sound for studio monitors or in-ears etc

Of course this has some drawbacks - need to set the full PA up to dial in tones for example - but on the other hand, I've not suffered the OP's challenges either
 
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