Best method for running 2 guitars into Ultra

S

Shon Kornfeld

Member
Before getting the AxeFX, i read the boards a lot and read stories of bands using 2 guitarists or a guitar and bass into the Ultra. well now that i have one, and im looking into it more, i cant find any info on the best way to do this. do both guitars need to be bumped up to line level (via a Morley box or something similar) and run into the rear inputs? or another way?

i swear ive searched for an hour and couldnt find it on this board or the old one...

thanks!
 
I don't know that many users are doing this, so I'm not surprised you didn't find info! I would suggest running the main guitar (the one more likely to need pitch tracking) into the front input and then running the second via a preamp (the neutral level-shifting kind, not the "teh toobz is melting!" type) into Input 2. Put the Effects Loop block at the start of the chain for the second guitarist and mix the outputs appropriately.

Alternatively, you can take the preamp output (for guitar 2) and put it into Input 1R on the back. You'll have to select the appropriate L/R inputs on the amp blocks, and/or possibly using a Filter or Volume block to pan L/R to select the proper guitar for that processing chain. I use this approach with dual VG-99 guitars.
 
I'm interested in this as well, I could use it occasionally to jam with my son.

So do I understand correctly that the 2nd guitar will always need an external preamp?

If such a thing can be accomplished without external gear, and through clever patch setup, I'd be grateful if someone could spell out how it can be done. Maybe set up routing such that 1st guitar into the front input is panned to e.g. the right channel, and the 2nd quitar is panned to the left channel? I run mono, so both would wind up combined in the output mixer; the channel levels could be used to adjust the level of one guitar vs. the other?

I'm not clear on whether both inputs can be used at the same time, and how the patch works.
 
Brian G said:
I'm interested in this as well, I could use it occasionally to jam with my son.

So do I understand correctly that the 2nd guitar will always need an external preamp?

If such a thing can be accomplished without external gear, and through clever patch setup, I'd be grateful if someone could spell out how it can be done. Maybe set up routing such that 1st guitar into the front input is panned to e.g. the right channel, and the 2nd quitar is panned to the left channel? I run mono, so both would wind up combined in the output mixer; the channel levels could be used to adjust the level of one guitar vs. the other?

I'm not clear on whether both inputs can be used at the same time, and how the patch works.
Click to expand...

I made a patch of this on axechange.
http://axechange.net/preset.aspx?preset_id=508

guitar 1 in input 1
guitar 2 in input 2


no need for an external preamp. both guitar will go thru the same FX-chain, but notice that the wah is only available for guitar 1.

you could of course make also a different chain for both guitars.
 
So do I understand correctly that the 2nd guitar will always need an external preamp?
Click to expand...

It depends on your guitars pickups. Most likely you will not need it. It is the same as plugging into input 1 in the rear instead of front. You'll probably have to turn the input knob all the way up.
 
If having strictly identical signal paths is of importance to you, you could also use a pair of wireless systems, and feed them into rear input 1 L and R.
 
I had a look at Patrick's patch on Axechange, very nice. I wanted something different, so I set up my own, and it worked brilliantly. At least when tested with one guitar at a time into their respective inputs; haven't yet had a chance to have both guitars played at the same time. Other than adjusting settings to prevent muddiness, I don't see why this would be a problem.

In my case, both guitars use one amp. For this particular patch (not especially effects-laden, but it has 'verb, delay & chorus, and a compressor for the front input guitar), a 2nd amp exceeded the processor limit.

So it seems to work brilliantly.
 
I thought of another way of doing this, can't remember if I had seen something similar it in the old forum though. Just plug the first guitar to the front input, set input to "front analog", then plug the second guitar to input 1 but in the back AND in the RIGHT channel. This particular input, IIRC, does not have the special processing affected by the front/back input setting that might screw the frequency response, although I would thank if someone confirmed this fact. Finally set amp input to Left + Right, so that both channels are routed to the virtual amp's input. This way both guitars are fed to exactly the same chain, EXCEPT for the tuner, the guitar plugged into the back input won't be tracked by it, and I don't know about pitch tracking effects. This setup just works, and makes guitar switching very easy, just turn the volume down, change guitar, volume up and you're ready to rock again.

I'm not sure if the second guitar loses tone, is this setup "electrically right"? Any shortcomings that I haven't thought of?
 
too_much_power said:
I thought of another way of doing this, can't remember if I had seen something similar it in the old forum though. Just plug the first guitar to the front input, set input to "front analog", then plug the second guitar to input 1 but in the back AND in the RIGHT channel. This particular input, IIRC, does not have the special processing affected by the front/back input setting that might screw the frequency response, although I would thank if someone confirmed this fact. Finally set amp input to Left + Right, so that both channels are routed to the virtual amp's input. This way both guitars are fed to exactly the same chain, EXCEPT for the tuner, the guitar plugged into the back input won't be tracked by it, and I don't know about pitch tracking effects. This setup just works, and makes guitar switching very easy, just turn the volume down, change guitar, volume up and you're ready to rock again.

I'm not sure if the second guitar loses tone, is this setup "electrically right"? Any shortcomings that I haven't thought of?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct the right rear input 1 is not affected by the front/rear compensation processing. Pitch tracking on a lot of stuff in the pitch block can be set to the block input rather than main input now. No loss of tone, signal levels will probably need to be compensated for though unless you use a preamp prior to the rear input.

The input select on the amp block is great for this. You can have 2 different effects lines going easily. Just set one amp blocks input select to left and the other to right. Of course if you have effects before the amp blocks, it would negate the advantage and you would need a mixer or volume blocks pan them to separate effects lines.
 
Cool. Although sometimes I think there's a bit of treble loss if I run a guitar through the right rear input, don't know if it's me or something. Maybe it's not an instrument level input or "high Z".

And the lack of a tuner is a big problem, why can't that input be routed to the tuner? Maybe Cliff should add and "L+R" input selection such as the amp menu one.
 
too_much_power said:
I thought of another way of doing this, can't remember if I had seen something similar it in the old forum though. Just plug the first guitar to the front input, set input to "front analog", then plug the second guitar to input 1 but in the back AND in the RIGHT channel. This particular input, IIRC, does not have the special processing affected by the front/back input setting that might screw the frequency response, although I would thank if someone confirmed this fact. Finally set amp input to Left + Right, so that both channels are routed to the virtual amp's input. This way both guitars are fed to exactly the same chain, EXCEPT for the tuner, the guitar plugged into the back input won't be tracked by it, and I don't know about pitch tracking effects. This setup just works, and makes guitar switching very easy, just turn the volume down, change guitar, volume up and you're ready to rock again.

I'm not sure if the second guitar loses tone, is this setup "electrically right"? Any shortcomings that I haven't thought of?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, the rear inputs are line level inputs, and both levels will be controlled from the one Input knob. If you plug a second guitar directly into Input 1R, its level will be far lower than the one coming in on the front input. You'll have to boost it a lot inside the AFx to compensate.
 
scarr said:
too_much_power said:
I thought of another way of doing this, can't remember if I had seen something similar it in the old forum though. Just plug the first guitar to the front input, set input to "front analog", then plug the second guitar to input 1 but in the back AND in the RIGHT channel. This particular input, IIRC, does not have the special processing affected by the front/back input setting that might screw the frequency response, although I would thank if someone confirmed this fact. Finally set amp input to Left + Right, so that both channels are routed to the virtual amp's input. This way both guitars are fed to exactly the same chain, EXCEPT for the tuner, the guitar plugged into the back input won't be tracked by it, and I don't know about pitch tracking effects. This setup just works, and makes guitar switching very easy, just turn the volume down, change guitar, volume up and you're ready to rock again.

I'm not sure if the second guitar loses tone, is this setup "electrically right"? Any shortcomings that I haven't thought of?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, the rear inputs are line level inputs, and both levels will be controlled from the one Input knob. If you plug a second guitar directly into Input 1R, its level will be far lower than the one coming in on the front input. You'll have to boost it a lot inside the AFx to compensate.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I said,
"signal levels will probably need to be compensated for though unless you use a preamp prior to the rear input."
 
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