Behringer

Sixstring said:
My point is that it's a waked business model. I won't buy it never have never will as long as they continue to run it the way they do. I understand your POV but it's not mine and there is other budget conscious gear out there that holds up better without the fear of will it work or not, You own PA gear you known what I'm talking about.
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we all agree that B'ger is inexpensive stuff...
they do a great job of squeezing feature richness into el cheapo boxes...
I guess it's fair to assume that something has to give in some area to allow their kit to cost in so low..
generally you'd expect this to be in the components area..
and stuff made of cheapo bits tends to have a shorter life, or have a compromised sound [or a bit of both]

if you're strapped for cash and just need anything to get you going, B'ger can be among the very few options..
and can maybe see you through until better times when you can go get better kit..
there's something to be said for having a cheapo thing is better than no thing at all [cos at least you can do stuff]

but thinking about it....
there are plenty of examples of very costly, high end kit that has shown reliability issues
so in truth, a low 'mean time to useless' time isn't limited to just poor ol' B'ger and their peers..
 
Sixstring said:
I just don't understand this kind of business philosophy, build cheep stuff that a mass market will spend hard earned money on and then the end consumer has to spend more of their hard earned money fixing it or even worse chuck it into a land fill.

Just spend the extra money and do it right the first time and compete with the others instead of trying to to under cut everyone at the risk of reputation
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I don't think this is actually a business plan... as in
"let's make junk, get their money and they'll be fixing it within a year, who cares..."

I think their plan is
"let's cram as much functionality as we can into a low cost unit"
and to keep the costs down, corners are cut in design, components and assembly etc

now think like a student... got a band together... a head full of songs and energy..
mommy and daddy don't drive Mercs and Beemers but are up for helping the kid none the less...
or the student is waiting tables when out of class trying to make ends meet, and get himself as a muso / the band up and running
do you get a mixer for a couple of grand?
or do you get the whole PA and mixer for a couple of grand?

you got to start somewhere..
I did exactly this....
I came from a very poor family...
I started out with all kinds of stuff from the bottom of the heap...
and over time, you swap bits of it out with nicer stuff and grow your rig..
and now my rig is very nice...
cos it's got one of them lil' black boxes in it that makes all them cool noises...
and another lil' black box with all lava and stuff inside that makes all the cool stuff that the other black box does really really loud....
but all this is light years and a lifetime away from day one...

I think B'ger's reputation is the right one... and what they aim for..
cheap, moderately chearful, great place to start, doubt it'll last a lifetime..
 
i wanna get one the Behringer Truth but cant decide between Behringer B3031A or the B3030A. I know the 31 has more bass..but do you think I'll need that extra power for recording and producing (costs 75 bucks more)?
 
I've got the Behringer rack pre that has

8ch analog mic / line in -> 8 ch ADAT out
and
8 ch of ADAT in -> 8ch line level analog out

That actually is a decent piece of kit for me.

Richard
 
T.B.B. said:
i wanna get one the Behringer Truth but cant decide between Behringer B3031A or the B3030A. I know the 31 has more bass..but do you think I'll need that extra power for recording and producing (costs 75 bucks more)?
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You shouldn't really 'need' the additional power as monitoring at high levels is not best practice... however, if you want the additional power, then go for it :)
 
I can't say how the 30 is, but the 31 really sound amazing to me.
I would deff go for the 31 if its 75 bucks more.
 
I was thinking the 31 because it's woofer is bigger and getting closer to the FR 12 inch I'd be using as monitoring when live - therefore a quick 'quite' loud tweaking session using 8 or 8.75 inch nearfields should maybe leave less surprises when porting the Axe to a GT100FX and FR stage monitors.

I do know you're supposed to train your ears to your nearfields no matter what the woofer spec is so you know what the mix should be like in other speakers .... but I'm not going to be in an acoustically treated environment or mixing for commercial purposes.
 
clarky said:
I don't think this is actually a business plan... as in
"let's make junk, get their money and they'll be fixing it within a year, who cares..."

I think their plan is
"let's cram as much functionality as we can into a low cost unit"
and to keep the costs down, corners are cut in design, components and assembly etc

now think like a student... got a band together... a head full of songs and energy..
mommy and daddy don't drive Mercs and Beemers but are up for helping the kid none the less...
or the student is waiting tables when out of class trying to make ends meet, and get himself as a muso / the band up and running
do you get a mixer for a couple of grand?
or do you get the whole PA and mixer for a couple of grand?

you got to start somewhere..
I did exactly this....
I came from a very poor family...
I started out with all kinds of stuff from the bottom of the heap...
and over time, you swap bits of it out with nicer stuff and grow your rig..
and now my rig is very nice...
cos it's got one of them lil' black boxes in it that makes all them cool noises...
and another lil' black box with all lava and stuff inside that makes all the cool stuff that the other black box does really really loud....
but all this is light years and a lifetime away from day one...

I think B'ger's reputation is the right one... and what they aim for..
cheap, moderately chearful, great place to start, doubt it'll last a lifetime..
Click to expand...

I would rather buy/use something else... You know how some will jump up and down about a Les Paul Vrs Brand X well I'm like that when it comes to the "B" word. If some one wants to buy that gear god bless'em, it won't be me.
 
The 3031A monitors are extremely flat response and handle bass really well. The controls on the back to tune them for the room are really nice as well. Each one comes with a custom printout of a graph showing that particular monitor's tested frequency response. Being a bass player, I wanted the extra bass handling of these so I could play through them once in a while as well. The KRK V2's I replaced with these were just crap when it came to bass response and needed to be paired with a subwoofer. With the 3031A's you don't need a subwoofer, though they have settings so you can add one if you wish. Basically, a lot of it comes down to what you'll be doing with them, size of your room, etc.... I haven't heard the 3030A's, but I'm guessing that for mixing duties they'd sound awesome as well. If you're going to be playing through them once in a while though, you might want to go with the 31A's.
 
FCB1010 has worked great and is now a backup. The motorized fader box is a great piece of gear as is the 8 channel adat i/o, both of which have worked for years for me. Less success with little mixers which work, but sound pretty crappy and uneven.

I've avoided a lot of their gear that actually makes sound. On the whole, they've pushed prices to rock bottom levels on many categories of device. I never expect their stuff to be reliable, so I wouldn't buy it (FCB1010 as the exception) expecting it to work for a long time or be in a critical spot. On the other hand, they've made devices like the motorized fader controller and knob boxes that nobody was making within miles of their price points that work just fine.

If I had as many broken devices as the OP I'd be very unhappy.
 
Sixstring said:
I would rather buy/use something else... You know how some will jump up and down about a Les Paul Vrs Brand X well I'm like that when it comes to the "B" word. If some one wants to buy that gear god bless'em, it won't be me.
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totally fair enough... totally understand..
and like yourself, I'd not use B'ger these days either..
but right now I'm fortunate enough to have the choice..

actually, it reminds me of when I was a kid...
I really wanted a Strat.. Fender was for the rich kids, so I had my heart set on a Columbus Strat copy..
I was washing used cars on a forecourt at the weekends to raise the cash..
and just as I had the money for the Columbus I told my stepdad [all pleased with myself]
he said... "but what's the one you really want and how much more is it?"
I said the Fender and it's twice the price...
he said "well you got this far... do it all again and get the real thing"
I took his advice, and got me a beautiful Strat - which I still have and adore to this day..
so.. I totally see your point...

on the other hand, I do think of manufacturers like B'ger as a sort of 'get up and running quick' sort of thing..
the B'ger mixer I bought years ago solved a problem, quickly and cheaply just before a tour..
it did the job.. did it well enough for me to not worry about replacing it [until it had the ass kicked out of it over many years]
so they do have a place and serve a very good purpose..
 
clarky said:
totally fair enough... totally understand..
and like yourself, I'd not use B'ger these days either..
but right now I'm fortunate enough to have the choice..

actually, it reminds me of when I was a kid...
I really wanted a Strat.. Fender was for the rich kids, so I had my heart set on a Columbus Strat copy..
I was washing used cars on a forecourt at the weekends to raise the cash..
and just as I had the money for the Columbus I told my stepdad [all pleased with myself]
he said... "but what's the one you really want and how much more is it?"
I said the Fender and it's twice the price...
he said "well you got this far... do it all again and get the real thing"
I took his advice, and got me a beautiful Strat - which I still have and adore to this day..
so.. I totally see your point...

on the other hand, I do think of manufacturers like B'ger as a sort of 'get up and running quick' sort of thing..
the B'ger mixer I bought years ago solved a problem, quickly and cheaply just before a tour..
it did the job.. did it well enough for me to not worry about replacing it [until it had the ass kicked out of it over many years]
so they do have a place and serve a very good purpose..
Click to expand...

I here ya ;), I just hate to see people roll the dice on questionable equipment when there are other manufactures that will do the job for just a little more investment ie: Peavey, Carvin, Mackie. I understand that every manufacture has it's issues and nothing is perfect. This is where middle of the road usually kicks in yes it may not be as feature rich or easy on the pocket book as some of the equipment that B'ger makes but this is where the problem starts.

Cliff makes this same point in the interview with iguitar with respect to other modelers at the time he was looking to build the Axe. A lot of bells and whistles and pretty graphics on the front of the box but it didn't hold up to the real thing. In this case you get a lot of features or a lower price point but you sacrifice reliability. There is a lot to be said about quality even if it means giving up some quantity. Something that a step dad taught me when I was younger and something that I have tried to teach my kids today.
 
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