Bass recording. Cab IR or straight DI?

M

MetalGarret

Inspired
Let's say you're recording in Pro Tools and recording a bass track via USB straight from the Axe FX 2. Would you typically throw a CAB block in or do you go without one? I'm curioius cause I'm trying to eliminate wolftones but my compressor doesn't seem to want to keep the bass at one level. And I'm thinking it's because I'm throwing too much low end on it. Thoughts?
 
I'd record it dry. Then you have a lot of options on how to treat it. A lot of great bass production techniques involve mixing a DI track and an amped track together. You can always reamp it onto another track and work on your compression in the box.
 
Record dry and then you can play around with EQ, Amp, & Cab blocks.

The only time I record with committed Amp & Cab blocks is where there is a certain bass line where I need to feel what the amp & cab are doing in order to hone in on a playing performance.

Even then, I usually also track the dry out to a separate track so I have the "in the ball park" dry version of the performance, in case I want to fine tune settings and effects even more based on the rest of the song parts.
 
DI for the lows -> low pass filter
Amp for the highs -> Cab -> Mic -> high pass filter

check for time alignment between the two tracks. you typically have to delay the DI a small amount, 150 samples, to make them exactly time aligned.

adjust the low pass and high pass frequencies and levels to create one combined bass sound

Combined -> Waves Ren EQ bump up at 110 1db, down at 600 1.5db, up at 8K 1.5db -> Waves C4 multiband compressor 6db of gain reduction on the lows -> Waves MV2 compressor

I find two stages of gain reduction to be better to tame the bass.
 
barhrecords said:
Combined -> Waves Ren EQ bump up at 110 1db, down at 600 1.5db, up at 8K 1.5db -> Waves C4 multiband compressor 6db of gain reduction on the lows -> Waves MV2 compressor
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You can't cookie-cutter a plugin chain. Every mix demands something different from the bass. General guidelines are fine, though.
 
So far recording dry is going good. Thanks! I still have the wolftones happen but it's more tolerable. Probably need a good frequency analyzer to fish it out.
 
MetalGarret said:
So far recording dry is going good. Thanks! I still have the wolftones happen but it's more tolerable. Probably need a good frequency analyzer to fish it out.
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Usually raw basses need a pretty significant cut between 250Hz and 500Hz, and it depends on the type of bass. Don’t be scared to go very deep and wide with that cut.
 
When I record bass, I record both DI and amp/cab IR from the Axe FX. I have my preset for bass dialed in just right (for me, personally) to give me a nice low end, but everything's still compressed to sound even across the fretboard. I usually end up muting the DI, as it sounds too bland to me, but I always keep it around to reamp later if need be.
 
I used to record dry, but I LOOOOOOVE the 5-band passive EQ so much I now use that for everything bass related, to sculpt my bass tone into a ballpark-estimate of what I want tonally.

Of course, I'll always have to do additional surgical EQ and compression in my DAW depending on how the bass is sitting with the other instruments.
 
Chaos351 said:
When I record bass, I record both DI and amp/cab IR from the Axe FX. I have my preset for bass dialed in just right (for me, personally) to give me a nice low end, but everything's still compressed to sound even across the fretboard. I usually end up muting the DI, as it sounds too bland to me, but I always keep it around to reamp later if need be.
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This seems to be the hardest thing for me to do. Cuase it feels like no matter how I record or compress/EQ the bass I still get wolftones popping out at me. And I don't hear them in my BX5a monitors or my car speakers so much. It's my computer speakers. But I compare them to songs that hit similar notes on the bass and I don't hear it happening for them. So I'm trying to gain a perspective as to what I'm missing here.
 
MetalGarret said:
This seems to be the hardest thing for me to do. Cuase it feels like no matter how I record or compress/EQ the bass I still get wolftones popping out at me. And I don't hear them in my BX5a monitors or my car speakers so much. It's my computer speakers. But I compare them to songs that hit similar notes on the bass and I don't hear it happening for them. So I'm trying to gain a perspective as to what I'm missing here.
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It could be the room you are recording in. Do you use headphones to record?

My room has a resonance around A. So the open A string is always way louder than anything else.
 
MetalGarret said:
This seems to be the hardest thing for me to do. Cuase it feels like no matter how I record or compress/EQ the bass I still get wolftones popping out at me.
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"Wolf tones" are a sympathetic resonance happening in your instrument at certain notes that creates unwanted overtones, and there's nothing you can do about that with EQ or compression.

If you mean a flubby, muddy sound or dynamic spikes from the bass, then that's all about EQ and compression. The reason to split a recorded bass tone in two (DI and amped tracks) is to leave the low frequencies (<200 hz) to the clean DI track and compress the hell out of it to get rid of the dynamic spikes that will pop out of nowhere. The amped track takes the higher frequencies (>200 hz) and gives you the body and grit of the bass tone. Applying amping to the low frequencies just gives you mud.

It's similar to how audiophiles will use a bi-amped stereo system, with different amps taking care of the low and high frequencies. The key is setting the correct crossover point between the two. I use 200 hz, but you should probably experiment in a mix to see where the sweet spot is.

The other thing that contributes to muddiness is a frequency pile-up between the bass, the kick drum, and the lower end of guitars. You'll want to carve out space for each of these with careful EQing, and there are plenty of tutorials out there on how to start doing that (though your ears will always be the decider).

I hate to say it, too, but good bass technique can reduce the need for compression. A good bassist can get a more even volume from each note, whereas all of us wannabe Steve Harris and Geddy Lee types out there whacking the hell out of the strings create wild dynamic swings that need to be heavily tamed with compression.

Also, are you recording with a fresh set of strings? Being a recording bassist is *expensive*, unless you want to sound like James Jamerson, as strings lose their brightness and edge very quickly. Gigging bassists love strings that have some wear on them, but they suck for recording.
 
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I need a good Frequency analyzer for this. Can anyone recommend one? Ill pay for one that's as accurate as possible. And not that blueCat one. It's framerate stutters and it makes it hard for me to get an accurate reading.
 
I never record bass with the cab block on. It muddies up things. I mostly use the Tube pre amp model (added with some effects) and then straight in my soundcard. No need for a DI. Or I record bass straight in my soundcard without the Axe fx when I don't need effects.

About the wolf tones: as suggested by someone else; I think it has to do with the acoustics of your room. Have you checked if the wolf tones are there when you listen with headphone?
 
Thanks for the help guys. So apparently, it's my computer speakers. I just put on another song From Clutch, "The Regulator" and on the bass's higher notes it happens there too. So I think my bass compression skills might not be that bad after all. Hahaha
 
When recording bass, I typically run 2 tracks. I record a track dry (as many have suggested) then simultaneously record a track with a Bass POD. When mixing, I work with the combined tracks to get the sound I am after. Bass is tricky to mix. Too little and the track is thinner than Twiggy. To much and you get a Rosie O'Donnell track. When it is just right, it is the mojo in the mix and gives most songs the energy they need.
 
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