Axe-Fx III Firmware 25.00 Public Beta (Cygnus X-3)

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chris said:
ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global):

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt. :D

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.
Click to expand...
Thank you Chris!
 
chris said:
ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global):

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt. :D

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.
Click to expand...
Great work!

Needs to be wiki'd and stickied somewhere.
 
chris said:
ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global):

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt. :D

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.
Click to expand...
Also, the Bright switch & Hi cut will go back to default if you changed them with either Authentic or Ideal.
 
notalemming said:
Also, the Bright switch & Hi cut will go back to default if you changed them with either Authentic or Ideal.
Click to expand...
thanks. i was testing on amps that didn't have any of those types of switches in Tone page, but that's what i was referring to with "things like Input Trim..."

i've edited that part to include a mention about these special types of switches specifically. in my mind, i included those.
 
chris said:
ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global):

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV, and any switches that appear in authentic, like Fat, Bright, Presence Shift DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt. :D

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.
Click to expand...
Wow - thanks for the detailed info Chris. I’m curious about this part:

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

Aren’t the controls on the authentic and ideal pages controlling the same parameters, but just available on the two pages? If that is the case, I’m wondering how they could be different.

Thanks for all the time you put into this!
 
Brian Coonan said:
Wow - thanks for the detailed info Chris. I’m curious about this part:

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

Aren’t the controls on the authentic and ideal pages controlling the same parameters, but just available on the two pages? If that is the case, I’m wondering how they could be different.

Thanks for all the time you put into this!
Click to expand...
there is a setting in the axe called Tone Control Display. this sets if the hardware displays Authentic controls (just what the real amp has) or Ideal Controls (extra parameters common in amps) on the Hardware Screen when you edit the amp block. so that setting is for the Hardware screen.

Axe-Edit happens to be able to display either one, with the Tone vs Ideal tabs/pages in the Amp block, regardless of this setting for hardware.

so there is a specific setting on the hardware called Tone Control Display that has Authentic and Ideal options, and the choice of this setting determines if Bass Mids or Treble reset to default when the amp type is chosen.

so the part you quoted isn't about what page you look at in Axe-Edit, but what setting you have for Tone Control Display in Setup. i believe this parameter is only on hardware, not in Axe-Edit, but could be wrong.
 
Brian Coonan said:
Wow - thanks for the detailed info Chris. I’m curious about this part:

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

Aren’t the controls on the authentic and ideal pages controlling the same parameters, but just available on the two pages? If that is the case, I’m wondering how they could be different.

Thanks for all the time you put into this!
Click to expand...
EDIT: apparently Chris beat me to it, and now I'm just adding supporting info.

Not the actual tabs themselves. Within the global configuration menu, you can set it:

1711336998574.png
 
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Dave Merrill said:
I'm pretty sure a NEW preset inherently uses the defaults for all blocks, the NEW defaults in this case.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, there is no way to create a "new preset". You can only edit existing presets. That means adding an amp block to a preset will not use new defaults since that uses the amp block parameters already stored in the preset. Hence the need to do a reset on the amp block to get the new defaults.
 
Took me a minute to appreciate this one. After an upgrade, downgrade, then another upgrade, I’m really loving this one now. Great work!
 
GlennO said:
As I understand it, there is no way to create a "new preset". You can only edit existing presets. That means adding an amp block to a preset will not use new defaults since that uses the amp block parameters already stored in the preset. Hence the need to do a reset on the amp block to get the new defaults.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the only definition of a new preset be one that is created from scratch in an empty preset slot and if we were on fw 25b2, that would then initially have those default values from that fw other than any configuration changes or additions to effects or amp blocks by the user?
 
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OK... with this update Cliff has really knocked it out of the park. I mean WOW. I did the amp block soft reset for all my presets right away. Played through the factory presets for a bit like I usually do with updates and I have to say everything sounds like its absolute best so far. There's a new liveliness going on which I was kinda missing before. Not that it was bad before but now it's just amazing. Thank you for the constant innovation you put into this product!
 
chris said:
ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global). i use the word "page" below but could also say "tab" for the different pages/tabs we click in the Amp block for different sections:

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV, and any switches that appear in authentic, like Fat, Bright, Presence Shift DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt. :D

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.
Click to expand...
Thank you Chris!
I'm a huge fan of actual FACTS!

This belongs in the wiki for sure, with the proviso that it might need version specific notations at some point.
 
GlennO said:
As I understand it, there is no way to create a "new preset". You can only edit existing presets. That means adding an amp block to a preset will not use new defaults since that uses the amp block parameters already stored in the preset. Hence the need to do a reset on the amp block to get the new defaults.
Click to expand...
Hmmm.

Does an empty preset, one with NO blocks at all, have settings for two amp blocks, four drives, and the maximum number of every other block type, we just don't see them?

Earlier it was hypothesized that settings from recent edits to a block might be used when you added a new block of that type. The behavior in some cases would be very similar to this hypothesis.

Being a fan of actual facts, I'd love to hear from Fractal how this actually works.

For now, it seems like the most bulletproof way to get the latest defaults is to reset every block you add to a preset, as @GlennO said.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Hmmm.

Does an empty preset, one with NO blocks at all, have settings for two amp blocks, four drives, and the maximum number of every other block type, we just don't see them?

Earlier it was hypothesized that settings from recent edits to a block might be used when you added a new block of that type. The behavior in some cases would be very similar to this hypothesis.

Being a fan of actual facts, I'd love to hear from Fractal how this actually works.
Click to expand...

Take a preset and do a "Clear Preset" from the preset menu, then add an amp block to the grid. When I do that, the amp block still has the parameter values that were previously used in that preset. I find this all very confusing, but I don't think there's any way to get default parameter values by simply adding an amp block to the grid.
 
GlennO said:
Take a preset and do a "Clear Preset" from the preset menu, then add an amp block to the grid. When I do that, the amp block still has the parameter values that were previously used in that preset. I find this all very confusing, but I don't think there's any way to get default parameter values by simply adding an amp block to the grid.
Click to expand...
Insert the amp block, do a hard reset on it
 
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