Axe-Fx III Firmware 25.00 Public Beta (Cygnus X-3)

[iaresee]

I think he meant Ideal mode of the Tone page... Which is a global setting age affects what gets reset, too.

Sure, you can interpret it that way if you want.

 

[chris]

if someone can record a simple amp/cab preset on 24.xx, note ALL amp settings, then update to 25.xx, record the preset without changes, then hard reset the amp block, put the settings back exactly and record that, we could all listen and hear any differences. that would help this discussion vs "i think this or that."

 

[iaresee]

if someone can record a simple amp/cab preset on 24.xx, note ALL amp settings, then update to 25.xx, record the preset without changes, then hard reset the amp block, put the settings back exactly and record that, we could all listen and hear any differences. that would help this discussion vs "i think this or that."

I just dumped the SysEx from a fully reset 24.05 preset that only had an AMP1 and AMP2 block in it. Updated to 25.00, soft-reset every channel on the AMP1 and AMP2 block, dumped it again and then diff'ed them in HexFiend and they do show differences for the amp blocks between the dumps.

AMP1 and AMP2 had a different amp type on every channel. Picked ones I expected would have changed defaults like the Marks.

 

[notalemming]

if someone can record a simple amp/cab preset on 24.xx, note ALL amp settings, then update to 25.xx, record the preset without changes, then hard reset the amp block, put the settings back exactly and record that, we could all listen and hear any differences. that would help this discussion vs "i think this or that."

It would have to be an amp that actually has new default values. Not all do.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I just dumped the SysEx from a fully reset 24.05 preset that only had an AMP1 and AMP2 block in it. Updated to 25.00, soft-reset every channel on the AMP1 and AMP2 block, dumped it again and then diff'ed them in HexFiend and they do show differences for the amp blocks between the dumps.

Excellent work, thank you.

So now we know that this firmware DOES have new default values for at least some parameters of at least some amps.

Question now is whether blocks in a brand new preset get the current default values for that block, or if they're influenced by recent prior edits, and if this behavior is the same for all blocks types.

 

[chris]

Question now is whether blocks in a brand new preset get the current default values for that block, or if they're influenced by recent prior edits, and if this behavior is the same for all blocks types.

the action happens when you choose an amp type (or hard reset of course).

i believe sometimes when adding an Amp block to a preset, it pulls up the last used type/settings, so could be a chance it pulls up old settings from an old preset. i don't know for sure because testing that is not relevant to me as i just choose a different amp all the time anyway.

if you choose a new amp type at any point, it loads with the latest default settings, and that's what will get you the latest amp settings as a starting point.

 

[Dave Merrill]

the action happens when you choose an amp type (or hard reset of course).

i believe sometimes when adding an Amp block to a preset, it pulls up the last used type/settings, so could be a chance it pulls up old settings from an old preset. i don't know for sure because testing that is not relevant to me as i just choose a different amp all the time anyway.

if you choose a new amp type at any point, it loads with the latest default settings, and that's what will get you the latest amp settings as a starting point.

Sometimes? There must be some sort of logic to it.

For instance, does it do that only with certain block types, or only of there's already a block of that type in the preset?

I'm not trying to nitpick, trying to understand how to approach this new firmware.

 

[SinglecutGuy]

Well, Kids in bed, test repeated, refer to attachment (Scene 1 - 3).

It's just the question, is the 1987x more realistic with FW25. Same settings like in past but compared to the 1959SLP (Scene 1) the 1987x (Scene2) requires Master volume 8.50 (not 10) and Presence 5! (not 2) and sounds great. I think that's realistic for the Master Volume but not for Presence. Just check Scene 3 with Master Volume 10 and Presence 2, it's too crazy in comparision to 1959SLP (Scene 1), just try single notes for solos. With Scene 3 I don't like the settings/reaction of the 1987x anymore, that's not what I have in mind after 30 years of using. For the 100W plexis it looks great. But here is something not 100% correct from my point of view.

That is arguably the best sounding Marshall preset I've ever heard. Kudos.

 

[chris]

Sometimes? There must be some sort of logic to it.

For instance, does it do that only with certain block types, or only of there's already a block of that type in the preset?

I'm not trying to nitpick, trying to understand how to approach this new firmware.

i've focused on the amp block a lot recently, so i'll only comment on that for now.

say you have an Amp in a preset whatever type, whatever settings. if you change to a different type, the advanced settings are loaded at default. and i'm not at the gear right now, but i believe the Basic page stays the same.

to me, it's that simple. advanced parameters (sag, xformer things, everything but the basic page) are loaded at defaults. now i have the intended setup of the amp (tubes, transformers, etc) and can just turn the basic page (bass mid treb gain, etc.) as i would any amp.

load an amp block, change the type, adjust the Basic controls as you would on the amp. that's all we need to do. from there, we can further change any other setting. but it really is just that simple.

the "sometimes" part of my previous statement is because i'm not at the gear and can't do a full scientific style test. but i believe that from a blank preset, when you add an Amp block, it loads the last used amp type as a starting point. i believe all other blocks load with the strict defaults (delay loads with Mono Digital always, Cab loads with Factory 1 #1 always, etc.) i'm pretty sure of all of that, but can't specifically confirm as i'm not at the gear.

the Amp block does act differently than other blocks.

 

[GlennO]

For me, everything except gain resets when changing the amp type, basic as well as advanced. (Edit: I have Tone Control Display set to Authentic)

I believe setting the block type to amp1 or amp2 always retains the settings from the last time that block type was used in the preset. AFAIK, it "sometimes" seems to reset the parameters only because the previously used parameter values for that block type happen to have neutral values. That's true even after clearing the preset. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure there's any such thing as a blank or new preset.

 

[chris]

For me, everything except gain resets when changing the amp type, basic and advanced.

I believe setting the block type to amp1 or amp2 always retains the settings from the last time that block type was used in the preset. AFAIK, it "sometimes" seems to reset the parameters only because the previously used parameter values for that block type happen to have neutral values. That's true even after clearing the preset. I'm not sure there's any such thing as a blank or new preset(?).

that's the gist of what i'm sensing too, though i know Level does not change back to -12 dB, as i have to pay attention to that when loading amps on live streams, and i think BMT and others also don't change. again not at the gear this moment, but it's what i remember.

i believe the Amp block is the only block that loads the previously loaded settings when an Amp block is placed in a blank preset (or one without an amp block at the time).

anyone at the gear right now could set extreme changes to the Basic page, change amp types and tell us what does or doesn't change to help us solve this

 

[GlennO]

I tried it before posting that just to make sure. The only amp parameter (i.e. excluding the block parameters) that doesn't reset that I can see is the gain.

 

[chris]

doesn't Ideal vs Authentic setting affect this as well? i feel like i want to livestream after work today to figure all this out before my gig. might start up in an hour or so.

 

[iaresee]

doesn't Ideal vs Authentic setting affect this as well?

From the manual:

This parameter governs the "Tone" page of the amp block. When set to
Authentic (default) only those controls present on the actual amp are displayed.
When set to Ideal all tone controls are displayed. Also, when set to Authentic,
the Bass, Mid and Treble controls are reset to default values when changing
models to ensure accuracy for models that may not have these controls.

So: yes.

 

[Beecher]

From the manual:



So: yes.

Since I’m not at the unit and before I go to manual, Where is the authentic/ ideal setting?

 

[iaresee]

Since I’m not at the unit and before I go to manual, Where is the authentic/ ideal setting?

See here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...c-beta-cygnus-x-3.202659/page-32#post-2538706

 

[Beecher]

See here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...c-beta-cygnus-x-3.202659/page-32#post-2538706

Sorry, I didn’t see that you had edited your reaponce. That clears things up. Thank you

 

[ruso]

dumped it again and then diff'ed them in HexFiend

 

[AmbientOwl]

I'm pretty sure a NEW preset inherently uses the defaults for all blocks, the NEW defaults in this case.

Thanks -- that definitely makes sense but wanted to be sure I didn't need to do a Reset to make them kick in or something.

I was going to try to hold out on this one until the full release but seeing all the positive comments has me feeling like it is time to take the plunge!

 

[chris]

ok just got home and tested. the following primarily has to do with "soft reset" of an amp block (selecting another type then back to the one you want) and the choice of Authentic or Ideal for the Tone Control Display settings (Hardware, Setup>Global). i use the word "page" below but could also say "tab" for the different pages/tabs we click in the Amp block for different sections:

on TONE page in Axe-Edit in the Amp block

Tone Control Display settings:
Authentic: Bass Mid Treble DO go to default (5) on Amp Type change
Ideal: Bass Mid Treble do NOT go to default on Amp Type change

for either option, Gain and Level do NOT change to default when changing amp types.

(this has lead to some suddenly loud sounds when changing from an amp set to +10 dB Level to another amp which starts out very loud. i always change the Amp Level to -40 or so before changing amp types.)

Balance, Input Select, Bypass mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore also do NOT change to default.

for either option, things like Input Trim, Presence, Depth, Master Volume, Channel MV, and Global MV, and any switches that appear in authentic, like Fat, Bright, Presence Shift DO change to defaults when changing amp types.

on AUTHENTIC page in Edit, all additional controls that show up now (so not including what was on the Tone/Authentic page before) DO change back to default settings when changing amp types, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

the conclusions from the following pages are excluding the common parameters that appear on every page: Level, Balance, Input Select, Bypass Mode, Bypass and Scene Ignore.

on PREAMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Boost Type and Boost Level, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER AMP page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT NFB Compensation regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.
this may explain some of the recent "NFB should have been on" threads/questions when the parameter was introduced recently. if they stayed in the same amp block and turned off NFB Comp, then changed types/models, the volume could have been different than expected due to this staying off. if they happened to do a Hard Reset though, NFB Comp would have turned back on.

on PWR TUBES + CF page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Bias Tremolo Frequency, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on POWER SUPPLY page, all parameters DO change to defaults, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on SPEAKER page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Auto Dyna Cab Imp, Speaker Breakup, Speaker Compression, Speaker Time Const, Output mode, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on INPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Type and Q, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on OUTPUT EQ page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Off/On switch, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

on DYNAMICS page, all parameters DO change to defaults EXCEPT Out Comp Type, regardless of Ideal or Authentic Tone Control Display choice.

--
also discovered that Command+U on a mac changes a block to a Shunt.

i streamed this and it took about an hour to go through all this testing, so i have a recording if we need to prove this or something LOL.