Ax8 with guitar power amp and cab - any experience?

I use the AX8 and used to use the AXEFXII for a about 3 years before that. in both cases when playing live i always use a traditional 2x12 cab in conjunction with a matrix GT1000 power amp. i used to use a meas valve power amp which sounded good but was just way to heavy. after moving to the Matrix i have found my tone is a lot clearer and defined.

in my normal setup i send stereo signal to FOH from output 1 and then send a stereo signal to my 2x12 cab from output 2.
 
Got my AX8 right before Christmas and have been loving it. Pondering the FRFR vs power amp + cab dilemma too. For the time being, I bought an Electro Harmonix 44 Magnum power amp pedal to use with my closed-back 1x12 cab, loaded with Celestion C90 Black Shadow. I've turned off cabinet modeling and it sounds great, but I'm noticing that all the amp models running this way start to sound fairly similar, which isn't surprising. Ideally, I'd prefer to use the IR's and send the AMP + CAB blocks to FoH and also to my monitor on stage, but the thought of dropping another $1,000+ on a FRFR makes me ill. I don't trust the sound guys enough to give up control of my stage monitor, so using theirs is not an option.
 
You can do both. Send the Amp/Cab IR to FOH and have your cabinet and EH44 on stage. See above post for adding an FX loop bypassing the cab IR and use output 2 with your EH44 volume for your stage volume adjustment. If that's what you wanted to do.
 
[QUOTE=" I like the Teh21 Power Engine for my 'electric' shows, and an AER (Compact 60) for acoustic. Both of these set-ups are super light and very easy to transport.[/QUOTE]

So, you just plug directly into the Tech21 Power Engine with a XLR or ¼ cable and you're good to go? Are you disabling the cab block on your AX8 or just leaving it on though the Power Engine? Also, do you get the highs and mid's on the Power Engine without full range speakers in there? I'm tempted to do just that- eliminates the need to lug around a ss power amp as well- just straight into the Tech 21 and good to go. Love to know how that's working and sounding for you. I'm not a huge fan so far of going straight to FOH- so far my experiences in the crappy bars I play at are just that, crappy tone. They usually don't have a sound guy and the PA's are there for vocals- pretty much exclusively. Most don't even have monitors available much less set up.
 
My question is - how many of You actually use setup like that? What is Your experience with it? Have You spotted any problems, pros and cons? Which PA do You use?

When I first started with a FAS Standard 11 years ago I ran my rig like this ran for about a year or so before I realized I/R's work really good! I guess I just didn't want to let go of my beloved 412's. I used a peavey 50/50 to push the cabs and it sounded really good but of course weight and maintenance were becoming a real issue.

Once I was able to dial in sounds that were just as good as what I was hearing from the 412's through a floor monitor I caved and ditched the cabs and poweramp and haven't looked back. When quantum came about, I knew for me an amp and cab had become a thing of the past.

I know powered FR isn't for everyone but that's my story and I'm stickin to it, hope it helps!

Cheers!
 
I'm using this combination: AX8 main out -> GFI Cabzeus speak sim/DI -> Stereo main to FOH / mono through to ISP Stealth class D power amp to 4 x 12 Marshall cab.
In this combination: AX8 has no cab block at all and power section emulation is turned ON. All speak sim happened on GFI Cabzeus and affecting only FOH. ISP Stealth add no coloration to signal.
Sound quality: I completely satisfied as well as listeners. FOH listeners can't recognise real difference between IR and Cabzeus in the mix (and during solo too). I have great support of real cab on stage/rehersal space. There are difference in sound between real cab & FOH but it makes sound even better - somehow more complex, kind of 3D. I planned to match real cab & Cabzeus someday but it is not burning at all.
Recording - for the sake of recording I can use either Cabzeus (it is DI too) with its emulation or copy of all my presets for recording with cab block engaged, so I can experiment with various IR's that better serve the song.
Side benefits (and actual reasons why I start using this setup): I wanted to have AX8 effect loop in my disposal (now my H9 is connected that is drastically expanded sound palette and fix issue with lack of processing power for some complex sounds) and have now ability to play silently without additional devices as GFI has headphones out.
 
I go straight from the AX8 into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 then to a 1x12 with a Celestion Alnico Cream speaker. Landed on this after wasting months endlessly auditioning IR's that I didn't like the sound of thru my studio monitors. This route is much easier and sounds consistent and "correct" for lack of a better word. Sure, there's a world of tonal possibilities with IR's but I like a more consistent tone with the same cab. For now anyway...I'll probably change my mind next week.
 
I've bought into the whole FRFR thing after reading about all of the possibilties available because of IR's that allow for different speaker/mic combinations. I've got some pretty good sounding presets for my FRFR speaker setup but I really don't have the patience to sift through IR's. I'd rather tweak an amp parameter chasing tone than searching through the IR's. And I haven't bought an IR pack yet because I'm still sorting through the stock IR's. My FRFR speaker is now in the shop being serviced and could be out as much as 4 weeks I'm told. So I plugged into the FX return of my DSL40 and WOW!. I feel like I'm free to play guitar now. I'd been obsessing over tiny nuances because the tones coming from the FRFR speaker never 'wowed' me. But I'm pretty floored by the tone coming from the amp, using the AX8 as a pre-amp. Even the Fender models sound close despite the amp being EL34 powered.

I'm not saying I won't go back to FRFR once my speaker is fixed. If anything, I'll probably be more inspired to sift through the IRs. But then that takes time away from me playing and my time is limited to after the kids go to bed or when I can chase everyone out of the house. The point of my post is that although the amp model I'm using doesn't sound like an exact replication. It's REALLY good and stands on it's own. I get great tones out the DSL40 on its own after a couple of mods. With the AX8 I have AWESOME tones coming out and so much flexibility. I'm not even running 4CM. I don't see the need.
 
I run my AX8 straight into an American Audio VLP1500 power amp (cheap, clean and loud!) then into a 1960 Marshall full-stack and couldn't be happier with the way I sound.

I love the versatility of this unit. You can find a great tone with pretty much any setup, just work with what you've got.
 
When I first started with a FAS Standard 11 years ago I ran my rig like this ran for about a year or so before I realized I/R's work really good! I guess I just didn't want to let go of my beloved 412's. I used a peavey 50/50 to push the cabs and it sounded really good but of course weight and maintenance were becoming a real issue.

Once I was able to dial in sounds that were just as good as what I was hearing from the 412's through a floor monitor I caved and ditched the cabs and poweramp and haven't looked back. When quantum came about, I knew for me an amp and cab had become a thing of the past.

I know powered FR isn't for everyone but that's my story and I'm stickin to it, hope it helps!

Cheers!
So can you tell me a bit about how you're setting up your output levels? I'm STILL having trouble getting my sounds from one patch to another to match and not clip the PA or my monitors through FRFR. I'm at around -20 DB on patches now to avoid clipping, and that just seems crazy low? Is that normal or about average? I'd love to ditch all my amps- this sounds amazing and very "3D"- I think I like the tone of some of my AX8 patches much more then my real amps (11 and counting) and I can get the great tone at bedroom volume and venue volume and it sounds the same (so much for Fletcher Munson- sounds just as good at lower volume as it does loud to me- and more importantly it feels the same!) There are so many "Outputs" on this thing, the Level, the Master, the Out1 etc. How should I be setting them?!?!?!
 
So can you tell me a bit about how you're setting up your output levels? I'm STILL having trouble getting my sounds from one patch to another to match and not clip the PA or my monitors through FRFR. I'm at around -20 DB on patches now to avoid clipping, and that just seems crazy low? Is that normal or about average? I'd love to ditch all my amps- this sounds amazing and very "3D"- I think I like the tone of some of my AX8 patches much more then my real amps (11 and counting) and I can get the great tone at bedroom volume and venue volume and it sounds the same (so much for Fletcher Munson- sounds just as good at lower volume as it does loud to me- and more importantly it feels the same!) There are so many "Outputs" on this thing, the Level, the Master, the Out1 etc. How should I be setting them?!?!?!

The VU meter is your friend for this! To access it simply page over 4 times on the front of the AX8!

You have to get everything the same with respect to preset levels first. In each preset use the VU meter to adjust your levels using the (LEVEL) control in the amp block.

The line about 2/3's across in the VU meter is what you want to aim for when setting level. The amp block is the most typical place for the adjustment though you can change it in other places but for now just use this location to set your preset levels as it makes things more consistent.

-20 db is really irrelevant as far as a place to set things. It's the level of the preset according to the VU meter that matters most, you can build every preset so you have a -20 setting for you level then go in and change the sene levels, output levels to make things louder or softer but if you are hot or cold according to the VU meter you will still be either bashing the daylights out of the inputs or not getting enough to your monitor / PA, mixing board etc... whatever the level winds up being is what it is.

You can make use of the other various level controls, Sene or Output-1-2 to help you get your levels normalized in the VU meter if needed!

I find setting up the clean presets first really helps because of how much level they need in order to get the volume required to be leveled with a dirty preset.

Then go in and setup you driven tones. Once these are set you shouldn't need to mess with them unless you edit your preset or change your level in the signal chain.

Not only will this will level your presets from one to the next but it prevents internal clipping as well!

The Master is just like the Master on a real amp and how it affects the tone and feel and volume. Turn the Master up and yes it's going to get louder but this also changes your levels so you need to account for this when your building the preset.

Lastly use the output knobs on the AX8 (out 1) (out 2) to control your volume, or use the volume knobs on your monitoring solution / sliders on the mixing board.

EDIT: The one other thing I forgot to mention is to check the output settings!

It's in the Setup menu under I/O > Levels > Out 1 (Main) nominal level . You can select either -10 or +4 db this will make a huge difference in your output levels running to whatever you are using to amplify with. This could be a large part of your issue if your not aware of what the setting is.
 
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You should put the cab block at the end of the signal chain before the output block. Then branch out before the cab block to another row and add the FX block. No global setting requiring any changes. If you like to control your monitor volume using an expression pedal then put in a corresponding volume block before the FX block (after the branch point).

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Hi
I use Marshall Jvm as stage monitor, and create a fxloop but no sound come out
can you tell me how you connect your fx send to power amp?
Thanks
 
I'm on an Ax8 since a few months now and used to plug output 1 into my frfr active wedge.... Had a lot of fun with it but missed the punch of the real guitar cab pushed by a poweramp. Then the Seymour Duncan 170 landed on my pedalboard and i haven't looked back since then. It's super powerful and handles all of my patches surpisingly well. Output 1 with cab sim to FOH and output 2 w/o cabsim to the Duncan and then to any 2x12 i find on the stage. So far so good!
 
I'm on an Ax8 since a few months now and used to plug output 1 into my frfr active wedge.... Had a lot of fun with it but missed the punch of the real guitar cab pushed by a poweramp. Then the Seymour Duncan 170 landed on my pedalboard and i haven't looked back since then. It's super powerful and handles all of my patches surpisingly well. Output 1 with cab sim to FOH and output 2 w/o cabsim to the Duncan and then to any 2x12 i find on the stage. So far so good!

I also have the 170 pedalboard amp that I was using with my Avatar 1x12 cab for a while. I'm back to FRFR for now but that 170 is a crazy good poweramp. Loud as hell!
 
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