Wish Auto gain in EQ Blocks

[WbbS]

I stumbled across this feature in a plugin and I think it's useful and interesting, so I wanted to share it here, it can make some use in tone shaping.

I copy how it works from online search:

• Boosting frequencies makes it louder, and fletcher-munson means that will always sound better.
• cuts will always be softer and therefore sound worse.

so how do you really know if the tonal balancing you're doing is actually making it better or worse?

answer: balance the energy between before and after, so that fletcher-munson doesn't kick in, and you can actually compare apples to apples.

It's to avoid the perception of "louder is better". With the autogain feature, the band you boosted will still be louder in relation to the rest of the spectrum, but it won't appear louder as a whole. The idea is that you'd be better able to judge the changes you made, without being fooled by, it's louder and therefor better.


1. For quick A/B test if you ain't sure is EQ you added makes the sound better. Both A & B having the same loudness helps you to ignore louder = better factor

2. When your mix already has some balance and now you want to make a track brighter/darker/punchier/edgier or to remove some dirt/conflicting frequencies from it and you don't want to break the balance (to maintain the same track loudness).

 

[steadystate]

I thought that's what the level control was for.

 

[WbbS]

I thought that's what the level control was for.

But with this the gain is compensated automatically and is not just “more gain”, but a whole adjustment as I wrote:. With the autogain feature, the band you boosted will still be louder in relation to the rest of the spectrum, but it won't appear louder as a whole.

 

[AlGrenadine]

+1

 

[fractalz]

I do this in the DAW with loudness monitoring (eg LUFS).

 

[WbbS]

Yes, there are a lot of EQ plugins that does that, but we are not connected to a DAW anytime, so I think it may be useful a feature like that. To keep gain in control when you apply EQ.

I've checked how it works with FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q-3-equalizer-plug-in) there has a free trial, and it is a nice addition.

Anyway, I see it may be not super easy to be done and not a priority for sure, but I thought it deserved to be shared here ;-)

 

[sprint]

imo "louder is not better" - I've seen this "rule" before and wonder where it comes from. I typically dial in patches at low volume because I play at low volume. When I increase volume, they almost always sound less good to me. Maybe auto-gain will work in reverse for me?

 

[unix-guy]

imo "louder is not better" - I've seen this "rule" before and wonder where it comes from. I typically dial in patches at low volume because I play at low volume. When I increase volume, they almost always sound less good to me. Maybe auto-gain will work in reverse for me?

Louder (to a point) is almost universally considered better due to the way our ears hear different frequencies.

If you only play at low volume then, of course, dial your presets for that.

If you turn them up then, yes, they will sound worse because you will have overcompensated for your ears at low volume by dialing in too much high and low content. Classic Fletcher Munson...

To the point of the OP, the auto gain would allow us to affect the EQ curve without the relative level change that can affect overall levels and thus be more of a "pure" EQ.

Think about a typical graphic EQ. If you bump every band by 3dB, the overall EQ is unaffected. You could just as easily left the bands at 0 and bumped the gain of the EQ by 3dB.

So when you start changing things the overall level may increase or decrease.

 

[sprint]

Think about a typical graphic EQ. If you bump every band by 3dB, the overall EQ is unaffected. You could just as easily left the bands at 0 and bumped the gain of the EQ by 3dB.

really? I was under the impression this would not be true particularly with different Q values on different bands - but even if the Q values were equal on all bands, wouldn't bands in the middle be "lifted" to some extent by neighbouring band adjustments on both sides, where as the 1st and last bands would only be "lifted" by neighbouring band adjustements on one side? - so bumbing every band by 3db would not be equivalent to a flat eq with overall boost of 3db. I'm no expert - this was just my convoluted thinking on this exact question which I'd considered before - maybe I'm way off.

 

[unix-guy]

really? I was under the impression this would not be true particularly with different Q values on different bands - but even if the Q values were equal on all bands, wouldn't bands in the middle be "lifted" to some extent by neighbouring band adjustments on both sides, where as the 1st and last bands would only be "lifted" by neighbouring band adjustements on one side? - so bumbing every band by 3db would not be equivalent to a flat eq with overall boost of 3db. I'm no expert - this was just my convoluted thinking on this exact question which I'd considered before - maybe I'm way off.

It might depend on the type of EQ... And I'm also not an EQ expert, but that's my understanding.

Easy to test, though with a couple channels of the GEQ block

 

[sprint]

Easy to test, though with a couple channels of the GEQ block

Done / attached, scene 2,3,4 trying it on different GEQs - looks like not the same. Some EQs have a bigger difference between all bands boosted and equivalent overall level increase than others (Mark EQ in scene4).

Interesting

 

[jefferski]

+1 would be a good option to have. Sort of like the Auto Makeup Gain in the compressors.

 

[Rex]

really? I was under the impression this would not be true particularly with different Q values on different bands...

You're right. In the real world, there are factors that prevent a perfectly flat response when you raise every band by an equal amount. But from a 10,000-foot view, @unix-guy is also right. If you raise every band by the same amount, you won't substantially change the overall voice of the signal, but you will get an overall boost in level.

 

[sprint]

You're right. In the real world, there are factors that prevent a perfectly flat response when you raise every band by an equal amount. But from a 10,000-foot view, @unix-guy is also right. If you raise every band by the same amount, you won't substantially change the overall voice of the signal, but you will get an overall boost in level.

I dunno, check scene 4 of my attached preset above. +3b on all bands of the Mark GEQ does not even come close to nulling out against the same GEQ with all bands at 0 but level boosted 3db. Amount of difference depends a lot on the GEQ used I suspect.

 

[GlennO]

I dunno, check scene 4 of my attached preset above. +3b on all bands of the Mark GEQ does not even come close to nulling out against the same GEQ with all bands at 0 but level boosted 3db. Amount of difference depends a lot on the GEQ used I suspect.

Of course, but as Rex says, that's not the point. The point is an EQ can affect the gain, positive or negative. For various reasons, including facilitating A/B comparisons of the EQ, you want it to be gain neutral and an autogain feature helps with that. That's why it's such a popular feature in EQs.