Arg! USB digital has latency compared to Audio Outs

[iaresee]

How the fuck is that possible.

He created an aggregate device. Applications -> Audio MIDI Setup. Not recommended.

 

[iaresee]

I'd be very interested to see your Logic example!

Threw this done very, very quickly so that's my excuse for the shit playing. I tried to pick a drum pattern that was grooving so you could see how well things line up.

Laid down the drum pattern
Recorded the rhythm guitar
Recorded the lead guitar

One take each. Nothing else was done to the track before I bounced what you're hearing. Everything lines up perfectly. I was monitoring via headphones plugged in to the headphone jack on the Axe-Fx. NO SOFTWARE MONITORING was used on the record-enabled track when I was recording. Logic 9 audio settings where:

Here's how it looked in Logic...not that it says much:

And here's the result:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/870088/AxeFx/no-latency-demo/no-latency-demo.mp3

Sloppy playing aside, everything lines up nice and tight. Take after take it's just fine.

 

[jaredsteinfeld]

Ian - I have been trying to get USB recording to work with Logic. I think my downfall was using a digidesign 003 rack as the output device (too much crackling, latency). Anyways, I will give your settings a shot (I was surprised you could run it at 128, in the past I have needed lower tracking buffer settings - would be great if I can run things higher).

 

[iaresee]

Ian - I have been trying to get USB recording to work with Logic. I think my downfall was using a digidesign 003 rack as the output device (too much crackling, latency).

I can't see using a separate device for input and output as being something that'll work really well. CoreAudio, plus the device drivers, plus all that processing...best to avoid it. I'll switch the input/output sources for my project as I work. If I'm doing guitars it'll stay on the Axe-Fx. If I need the mic pre's on my Duet I'll switch it all to the Duet. I'm using a PreSonus Monitor Station as a mixer and the Axe-Fx Output 1 and Duet outputs all flow in to the Monitor Station and I can route them to my mains and headphones from there. I also connect Output 2 of the Axe-Fx to the 1/4" inputs of the Duet so I can record it via the Duet if I want. Very flexible.

Anyways, I will give your settings a shot (I was surprised you could run it at 128, in the past I have needed lower tracking buffer settings - would be great if I can run things higher)

That's the default Logic assigned for the device. I haven't touched it. And I run a rather crappy old iMac: Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM (was 4GB but a stick went bad...waiting on a 6GB kit now...). Nothing fancy at all.

 

[Spaceboy]

Why isn't an aggregate device recommended? For Pro Tools users like myself, an aggregate device built from the Axe FX inputs and outputs must be created, AFAIK. I have severe latency problems when also adding an interface into the aggregate device, which makes the Axe FX inputs unusable, and reamping impossible. If I select the SPDIF inputs from my interface, everything is fine. It's only when using the Axe FX inputs that I get latency. However, when I build the aggregate device using ONLY the Axe FX ins and outs, and not including the interface, I don't have these latency issues. I have switched interfaces and had this same problem with the Axe FX. I've been through everything on this board and others, and nothing has been much help getting the Axe FX to operate with other interfaces, or let me reamp. The only method that works is when it's used on it's own, which requires me changing I/O schemes and unplugging monitors from my interface and into the Axe FX. It's doable, but shouldn't be this complicated.

 

[iaresee]

Question asked:

Why isn't an aggregate device recommended?

Question answered:

I have severe latency problems when also adding an interface into the aggregate device, which makes the Axe FX inputs unusable, and reamping impossible.

What happens when you built an aggregate device is a complex interaction of device drivers and CoreAudio and it doesn't always work. Case in point.

There are manufacturers that flat out don't support aggregation (Apogee for example...and they're an Apple/OS X poster child) because it's such a difficult problem to get all permutations of vendor hardware and drivers working properly.

The only method that works is when it's used on it's own, which requires me changing I/O schemes and unplugging monitors from my interface and into the Axe FX. It's doable, but shouldn't be this complicated.

Wait and see what changes 10.7.4 brings to the table. CoreAudio is getting a decent update.

 

[airtommy3]

Hey Guys,
This post has been helpful, as I just purchased the Axe and I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about recording/reamping in Logic. I became so accustom to the ease of reamping with plug ins like guitar rig, and although the tones in the Axe2 are undeniable, I'm a bit disappointed in it's limitations and complications when used in a Daw setting with other Audio interfaces etc.

Ian- I have a similar setup as you, with Logic and a Duet, and now the Axe. I was initially thinking I would use the Duet as an AI and not the Axe when recording guitars because of it's clear, quiet, transparent conversion and quality. But now that just seems to be too complicated, and I'm thinking I will just switch the input/output source and monitor system every time I record guitars, like you do. Since you have the Axe running via Usb and also into your Duet, do you notice a difference sonically between the two? Also, what do you find to be the most efficient way to re-amp in Logic?

Thanks!
-Tommy

 

[iaresee]

Since you have the Axe running via Usb and also into your Duet, do you notice a difference sonically between the two?

Yes, there is a considerable difference between the two with my preference being the USB stream vs. the Output 2 -> Duet stream. The Duet rolls off a decent amount of the high frequency content. Whether that's by design or by accident or by user error (quite possible in my case), I'm not sure. They are not equivalent, but they are not good/bad -- just different.

Also, what do you find to be the most efficient way to re-amp in Logic?

The USB interface makes this really quite simple. See:

Axe-FX II Tutorial (en): Reamping with Logic Audio - YouTube

 

[airtommy3]

Thanks Ian. Guess I was thinking in terms of a more efficient way to re-amp while playing back the mix, which I guess is just not possible...?

Interesting observation about the Duet. Glad to hear you like the sound of the usb better, since thats the route I'm taking!