Anyone switch back from FRFR to power amp / cab?

G

Gasp100

Power User
At this point the II is so flipping amazing it sounds damn fine through most any FRFR I play it through (Atomic CLR, EV ZLX112P, Adam A5's). I almost went through a massive purge but stopped short after testing the II into my EV ZLX11P. It's not NEARLY as sweet as through the CLR, but is still sounds pretty damn good. And now of course I have a decent amount of cash to experiment with lol...
Should I try power amp / cab again?
That way it's no excuses!
II for home studio / low volume play
II for acoustic through the EV's
II for full band gigs if house sound is provided
II for "amp like" response into power amp / cab and backline when I want/need that...

What do you think and what is your combination?
 
Well, if you have lots of disposable income to throw around. I have active FRFR, passive FRFR and tube amp through guitar cabs.

Guess which is the one I almost never turn on.
 
I am going into a CLR Neo and a Seismic SAX15 for FRFR right now and 13.07 is sounding killer.
I also go out from output 2 into the power section of my JSX head to a Recto 2X12.
I've always found this to sound very good (EL-34 based models in particular), but last night I also discovered that these new Ultra res IR's sound great through a real cab.
if I turn the presence up to about 10:00 and the low res down to about 8:00 I can leave the cab IR on and it sounds and feels "natural"
FRFR speakers/SS power amps can feel a bit still/sterile at times, going through a tube power amp and real cab gets this "bounce" back in the feel.
Normal IR's /Tone matches do not sound good to my ears through a real cab, these do (set mic to null prox to about 9:00) :)
 
kmanick said:
I am going into a CLR Neo and a Seismic SAX15 for FRFR right now and 13.07 is sounding killer.
I also go out from output 2 into the power section of my JSX head to a Recto 2X12.
I've always found this to sound very good (EL-34 based models in particular), but last night I also discovered that these new Ultra res IR's sound great through a real cab.
if I turn the presence up to about 10:00 and the low res down to about 8:00 I can leave the cab IR on and it sounds and feels "natural"
FRFR speakers/SS power amps can feel a bit still/sterile at times, going through a tube power amp and real cab gets this "bounce" back in the feel.
Normal IR's /Tone matches do not sound good to my ears through a real cab, these do (set mic to null prox to about 9:00) :)
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Interesting! I hear you on SS Sterile sound. The match with the CLR is made in heaven, but really the EV's are sounding great a definitely useable for personal monitoring at a gig, no problems. They are also closer to what most house systems are using as well. I know Matrix makes great SS amps, a bit pricey though when you factor back in a good cab as well.
 
Homemade wedges with B&C 12CXN76 coax drivers (the 2" HF drivers are much better than the often used 1").
Two on top of each other is incredible no matter that two HF-drivers interfere. Driven by Matrix 1000 amp.
I have exactly the same sound as my beloved 4x10" Super. And can dial-in a 4x12 if needed.
 
I've done the opposite. After the Ultrares IRs came out I had Mick from xitone install a Matrix Gm-50 in my passive xitone cab. The best I've heard a FRFR sound other than my yamaha hs-80s monitors. I still love the sound of real cabs too but its nice to have options, but for now I'm really digging the ultrares thru my active Xitone and can't wait for the new cablab 2.0 and V14!
 
I have been back and forth on this several times...

Both can yield excellent results - its really just a matter of personal preference and what are your needs.

I have been using FRFR in one context (FBT Verve 8ma at Church with electronic drums) for the last four years but have been using a power amp/cab rig in other settings - playing at home by myself for a more "amp-like" experience or when jamming with friends.

Ultimately, I find switching back and forth between FRFR and power amp/cab configurations to be very frustrating (different patches for each, remembering to turn on/off cabinet model and wondering why everything sounds horrible until I remember to switch it on/off, LOL) so I recently decided to give FRFR another shot in order to see if I could be happy using FRFR in all settings.

I bought a CLR Neo a few weeks ago and kept my power amp/cab setup so I could compare both side-by-side. Unfortunately, the CLR Neo was damaged in shipping (speaker buzz that could really only be heard when playing clean as the notes trailed off) and I had to send it back to the seller in order for UPS to asses it to approve the damage claim. But for the time I had it, it worked well enough for me to check it out and compare the two setups. I could tell right away that the CLR was going to work for me. The power amp and NL12 are now sold. I was looking for another CLR, but yesterday UPS approved the damage claim against the CLR so the seller will send it back to Atomic for repairs and then on to me.

I will miss some of the amp-in-the-room vibe that FRFR does not quite capture, but I will not miss the frustration of constantly adjusting things as I switch back and forth from one setup to the other. My recommendation is to choose one or the other (FRFR or Power amp/Cab) and don't mess with switching back and forth between both.
 
I actually dug out my 2x12 EVM cabs when v13 came out. Awesome! Powering them with a Matrix GT1000. I've since made UR IR's of one of those cabs and been dialing in presets knowing that what I'll send to FOH will be just like mic'ing my cab, without the hassle. I think I just got tired of fiddling with all the IR's and decided to take a simpler approach, and it gives me some consistency. I don't need all the different cab tones. I was never one to try and duplicate the guitar tone of the song I'm playing, I'm just after "my" tone. And it's still like having all these different amps, just plugging them into my cabs.

The only drawback to this is of course the cab weight. Even just 2x12 with those EV's is quite heavy for this old dude. I'm considering building some 1x12's. It would be great if I could try the new Matrix cabs somehow but the overseas shipping and duty fees stops me.
 
I know what you mean. I did like just playing with the cab and not fiddling with IR's... If you are going power amp/cab, capturing a good IR of your cabinet and sending that to FOH is a great way to go. I couldn't do that because using the FRFR monitor is really my only option in the Worship setting since I also need to monitor good Piezo tones (can't get that using an amp/cab setup, at least to my satisfaction).

Yes, the EV's are quite heavy which is why I gave the NL12 a shot. I did get the chance to compare the NL12 and a friend's EVM 12L loaded Mesa Thiele (using a H&K amp head, not the AxeFX). The EVM/Thiele sounds better to my ears, with bigger low end and more punch. The NL12 was no slouch and sounded great as well but if weight is not consideration, I would go with the EV/Thiele over the NL12.
 
ethomas1013 said:
I know what you mean. I did like just playing with the cab and not fiddling with IR's... If you are going power amp/cab, capturing a good IR of your cabinet and sending that to FOH is a great way to go. I couldn't do that because using the FRFR monitor is really my only option in the Worship setting since I also need to monitor good Piezo tones (can't get that using an amp/cab setup, at least to my satisfaction). Yes, the EV's are quite heavy which is why I gave the NL12 a shot. I did get the chance to compare the NL12 and a friend's EVM 12L loaded Mesa Thiele (using a H&K amp head, not the AxeFX). The EVM/Thiele sounds better to my ears, with bigger low end and more punch. The NL12 was no slouch and sounded great as well but if weight is not consideration, I would go with the EV/Thiele over the NL12.
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Hi Eric, sorry I did not respond to your PM on TGP. My NEO sold (on here) super fast as expected and I was inundated with PMs about it. If I'm honest with myself it was probably a mistake to sell the CLR in terms of the absolute best complete rig, but what's done is done and I can now try a few different options. I don't think you can get better than the CLR if you subscribe to FRFR fully.
Now in my case although I'm gigging a lot (3x a month is a lot for me) over the course of this year 80% of those gigs will be acoustic based. I say based because I try to use the II or the Zoom G3 and FX (compression, EQ, Wah, chorus, delay, etc...) and looping often. I played an acoustic gig last night and used the G3 into my PA (EVZLX112P's) and it sounded great. For live gigs 4 out of the 5 venues I want to play have house sound / monitors and I will only bring the II and rely on house wedges. So there is literally ONE venue where I need back line and I'd still bring some guitar FOH as well because I need to provide PA as well.
At home I have the Adam A5's and I actually prefer them even to the CLR because of volume, positioning and stereo separation of course. PERFECT home studio rig for recording, practice and dialing patches for FOH. And, although I believe the II and IRs are pretty much "there" I still find myself using one or two iRs for my core gig tones and I know I have the luxury of testing many others AND reamping when I'm doing any recording.

So now what? Drop around $700 for a Matrix power amp, a high quality cab is around $400, upgrade my two space rack case to 3 or 4 plus the weight of it all for ONE venue I'll play maybe 3 more times (if I'm lucky) this year?
I just don't know...
Can you run a regular amp head into the NL stuff?
Do you disable cabs?
Does the two in a rack fit on top like a small stack?
 
Gasp100 said:
Hi Eric, sorry I did not respond to your PM on TGP. My NEO sold (on here) super fast as expected and I was inundated with PMs about it.
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No problem. I figured it out.

Gasp100 said:
So now what? Drop around $700 for a Matrix power amp,
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I see GT800's for $550 fairly frequently. Don't overlook the Carvin DCM1540L either.

Gasp100 said:
a high quality cab is around $400
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I paid $325 shipped and PayPal'd for a used NL12. If you are going to spend $400, I would definitely get an EVM12L loaded Mesa Thiele over the Matrix. The only reason to go with the Matrix over the EV Thiele is the weight. Although the NL12 is a fine sounding cab in its own right the Thiele sounds bigger and just sounds better, IMO.

Gasp100 said:
Can you run a regular amp head into the NL stuff
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Absolutely. It's a guitar speaker/cab, not FRFR. I tested it with two different amps (Budda SuperDrive 30 and a friends HK) and thought it sounded just as good with the amps as it did with a Matrix GT1000 and the AxeFX II.

Gasp100 said:
Do you disable cabs?
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Yes, I do not like the sound of the NL12 or the Thiele with cabs enabled. YYMV as other users report using cab sims with both.

Gasp100 said:
Does the two in a rack fit on top like a small stack?
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Yes, you can do that but both the NL12 and the Thiele are narrower than a 2-space rack, and not as deep, so it looks a little funny.
 
ethomas1013 said:
Yes, the EV's are quite heavy which is why I gave the NL12 a shot. I did get the chance to compare the NL12 and a friend's EVM 12L loaded Mesa Thiele (using a H&K amp head, not the AxeFX). The EVM/Thiele sounds better to my ears, with bigger low end and more punch. The NL12 was no slouch and sounded great as well but if weight is not consideration, I would go with the EV/Thiele over the NL12.
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Yep, I have the plans for building the Thiele cabs. What I'd really like to build is wedge cabs with the same kind of porting and tone as the Thiele. I've done a lot of looking into cab design stuff but just get lost on it with all the TS params and volume etc. :-| . I built the 2x12's I'm using now with a back port.

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Man, I'm really having a hard time with this one... I should have kept that CLR. Now I have a chunk of change but I just don't know if I can commit pretty big money to power amp / cab. I have 4 or 5 patches that can cut any gig and they all use or can use the same IR. Actually I could probably cut it with my clean patch alone. So if I think of it in that respect if I get a good power amp (matrix?) with a great cab (matrix, EV loaded Mesa or similar, something else?) I'm still ahead of the game.
 
Personally, I suggest sticking to your original plan to pay off some gear debt. Once it is paid off, then save up to either get another CLR or try the power amp/cab setup. If you elect to go power amp/cab, be advised that you are going down another rabbit hole that has at least and many, it not more questions, than the FRFR rabbit hole...

Just my 2c.
 
hyderipper said:
Yep, I have the plans for building the Thiele cabs. What I'd really like to build is wedge cabs with the same kind of porting and tone as the Thiele. I've done a lot of looking into cab design stuff but just get lost on it with all the TS params and volume etc. :-| . I built the 2x12's I'm using now with a back port.
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Not sure if these wedges would be identical to a true Thiele cab... but they are ported.

Pro Monitors
 
Interesting but I'm looking to build 1x12's. I've looked at a number of designs that list dimensions but one thing you can't tell as far as the porting is how long/diameter the port tubes are which I've learned is a very important aspect. I think I'm going to just build the standard Thiele cabs. Tried and true for the EVM's from what I've read.
 
hyderipper said:
Interesting but I'm looking to build 1x12's. I've looked at a number of designs that list dimensions but one thing you can't tell as far as the porting is how long/diameter the port tubes are which I've learned is a very important aspect. I think I'm going to just build the standard Thiele cabs. Tried and true for the EVM's from what I've read.
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They make a 1x12 and 2x12. They are nice folks too. Might be worth an email to pick their brain about the wedge design.
 
I picked up an old VHT (Fryette) Pitbull 45 to see if I really still like tube amps and I DO!!! It sounds killer straight up and I have a ton of options to integrate the AxeFX II (which I will try). So of course now I'm considering the VHT power amp / cab option and more definitively that 1U Fryettte power amp which is vapor ware right now.
 
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