Almost send AxeFX Back... Not going FRFR saved it

J

jwilms

Member
I was very close to send back my Axe-FX standard yesterday. I've tried a lot of FRFR monitors, even in the very high price range.
None of them could convince me to take this rig to a live gig.

I tried FBT 12mA, Mackie 350, 450, Coda Audio AP12, EAW NT59, EAW NT29 and still gonna try the Coda AP15.

None of these monitors made me have a great sound that I like so much with my marshall 2555SL, It all sounded liveless or to harsh, or not focussed, or whatever is not sounding like real thing ... Or they made me tweak those EQ's like hell, and that just doesn't feel right...
Also bought the entire set of cabs from Redwirez.. (btw, these are very good), but still missed something...

Every monitor had it's own weakness. The best of them all seemed to be a device of > 4500$ (the EAW NT59).This was the only one that gave me the feeling that it could be great to have FRFR. But I would be crazy to spend another 4500 Euro to have a sound I was just 95% convinced with.

So yesterday I was ready to bring all the monitors back, and ship the Axe-FX back to where it came... I was dissapointed because I wanted to make it work so badly.
Then I had some last chat with Hunter (thanks for that..) and he told me about his amp/ cabinet setup.

So I gave it a last try, and when I brought back the monitors, I asked my friend if he had a PA power amp for spare this weekend (he gave me a "Lab Gruppen FP2600") and hooked it up at home on my Marshall Vintage 4x12 cab (with beam blockers in 2 diagonal positions).

Now, this is it... Already set up some patches very easy and quick... The axe is staying here.. (sorry for the guys on the waiting lists at G66...)
Great dynamics, great sound and easy to replicate my sound I had with the 2555SL.

I still have to setup some patches now for the live gig use. But I'm conviced that next saturday this rig is going to be used.
tomorow a rehearsal to see how it fits in the band. But the compare with my 2555SL is already succeeded. Clean and crunch, and many more sounds to come that are even not possible with the marshall.

It sure is the cab sims that are not doing it for me. I can't believe it are the ??"bad"?? speakers in those high end monitors ? I don't know, maybe the mix in between... ?

I might give it another try if I get hold on another monitor (still want to try the Coda AP15, and The RCF 725), for me, with the EAW it seemed better to have a 15" speaker. It just gives a little more warmth, better bass response (I'm an old school rocker, so I don't need much bass, just the right one) and more spreading. To what I have noticed with the tests, I think that with FRFR you need to have a 15" to be able to simulate a 12" guitar speaker...
IMHO, if you need tweeters to better replicate the high tones of the 12 inch guitar speakers, you would also need something that can go lower than a 12 inch guitar speaker, nl. a 15 inch FR speaker... But I could be very wrong here, it's just what I have noticed, even with the high end monitors.

And maybe I need an IR that exactly replicates a Marshall 30 cabinet that is NOT miced. Technically I think it would be possible to create that. Practicallly I'm not equipped for that...

What's left: Just need to find a good SS power amp with a lot of headroom like the LAB I have hear now. this one is again too expensive (why do I always try first with the expenisve stuff... :| ) But I'm sure I can find one in my budget range that is suitable for this...

Just my thoughts about FRFR vs own amp/Cab...
 
None of these monitors made me have a great sound that I like so much with my marshall 2555SL, It all sounded liveless or to harsh, or not focussed, or whatever is not sounding like real thing ... Or they made me tweak those EQ's like hell, and that just doesn't feel right...
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Just out of courisity did you put an EQ block after the cab block? For quite a wile I had not done this and things did not start to sound right with FRFR untill I did. But even then it still didn't sound like a cab in the room but rather a Mic-ed cab in the room which was to be expected. I think this is where a lot of people are let down with the Axe when using it FRFR. They are so used to hearing the sound of a real cab opposed to a mic-ed one and having the interaction of on and off axis depending on where they are sitting and or standing in relation to the cab.


Every monitor had it's own weakness. The best of them all seemed to be a device of > 4500$ (the EAW NT59).This was the only one that gave me the feeling that it could be great to have FRFR. But I would be crazy to spend another 4500 Euro to have a sound I was just 95% convinced with.
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Insanity... I looked at their Micro Wedge and even that was stupid exspensive. At $2,500 for a 12" coaxial speaker, crossover, some connectors and small box just seams like your paying for a name at that point.

What's left: Just need to find a good SS power amp with a lot of headroom like the LAB I have hear now. this one is again too expensive (why do I always try first with the expenisve stuff... ) But I'm sure I can find one in my budget range that is suitable for this...
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There are plenty of options in this department for well under a grand that will give you the power you need to get what your looking for. You just need to deside which breand to use.

I personally like the SS amp/cab thing for the very reasons you have discovered. It is a trade off when compared to FRFR but if it makes you happy that it's a good trade. You still get the versatility from most of the amp simms to a certain degree. Not having access to cab simms is a bummer but I can still cover a lot of ground using the cab's I have. I'm going to convert my closed back 212 to an open back and through a pair of blues in it for the chimey stuff and that should cover the rest of the tones I'm looking to use.
 
You are lucky to have tried such high-quality gear. I think you owe your friend a night out on the town for letting you try all of that gear!

Curious, did you experiment with the AIR feature in the cab block? If Cliff wouldn't have added this feature I don't think I would even be considering going the FR route. AIR changed everything for me and is very powerful for neutralizing some of the anomalies of the cab sims with minimal EQ required.
 
what i say.....that was my experience - you also can try some Tubepoweramps,
they do not color that much people think but give you more headroom and a touch
warmth i miss with SS-Amps.....

Go and visit hunter, he has the VHT.....the right thing for a Marshall guy like you....
 
Hey by the way, I started to use the Axe/VHT combo now with Poweramp sims off. More direct and punchy than with it on. (I was trying to get to the ooomph my XTC creates, and with PA off I got closer)

I think with a SS amp you're not so much in the dilemma of what do do, PA Sims on off, thump on/off etc. - you just switch it all on and forget about it. With the tube amp I am wandering back and forth ...
 
hunter said:
Hey by the way, I started to use the Axe/VHT combo now with Poweramp sims off. More direct and punchy than with it on. (I was trying to get to the ooomph my XTC creates, and with PA off I got closer)

I think with a SS amp you're not so much in the dilemma of what do do, PA Sims on off, thump on/off etc. - you just switch it all on and forget about it. With the tube amp I am wandering back and forth ...
Click to expand...

it´s a different taste - i have had a chance to play it with THE incredible HH 8000
and the MosValve from tubeworks - both sounded a bit to cold for my taste...
For sure a Tubepoweramp has is own taste but there are so many possibilities on
the AXE to tweak it for what you want, so.....many ways to rome.....
 
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