A good alternative To Matrix Amps?

greiswig said:
People get really hung up on AB versus D class amplification. All other things being equal, I challenge anyone to tell the difference between the two in an undistorted output, blind test.
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Using an IR? Probably not, I would bet different amp classifications have different results but I'm no amp builder, there is a difference between class A and calss A/B, class G solid state amps are built to stay cooler, seems a bit odd being solid state. As far as hearing the difference? Who knows, as far as playing a guitar thru various power amps I would take the bet any day thru a traditional cab. Cheers
 
greiswig said:
People get really hung up on AB versus D class amplification. All other things being equal, I challenge anyone to tell the difference between the two in an undistorted output, blind test.
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Undistorted? That greatly narrows the purpose of guitar wouldn't ya say
 
aens said:
I know a guy who uses a Behringer class D power amp with his modeler. He argues that it's superior compared to other power amps especially at that price point as he says it's completely "neutral", "perfect sounding" and "not hyped like Matrix products". Judging from a recent A-B test he did I think it's either the modeler and/or the power amp he uses that has not convinced me at all and sound off and awful IMHO (he's using a competitive N modeler product). I find it funny that this particular guy seems to think he holds the holy grail of 300 € power amps that no one else seem to use, at least for guitar.

I linked a few A-B comparison clips from these forums to prove his modeler sounds off but he says people are way too biased on these forums, so he counts on other forums (confirmation bias much?) and himself more on this topic. Oh well.

Anyway: I own and use a Matrix GT800FX which I bought used for 300 €. Only reason I'll replace it will be if in case it ever stops working.
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I might have gotten into an argument with that guy in discord lol. But yeah - the words "neutral" and "flat" describe only one portion of a power amp's characteristics. I don't understand why that's so hard for people to grasp. Just because something is flat doesn't mean it's not possible to create a better sounding product that is also flat (or even not flat).
 
I have used the SD170 + 1x12 Celestion Creambacks, Fryette Power Station + 1x12 Celestion Creambacks, Fryette LXII + 1x12 Celestion Creambacks, Matrix GT1000FX with passive CLRs, and currently EV PXM-12MP

I play everything from R&B to Hard Rock in a cover band

The SD 170 felt stiff, non-musical, and sounded harsh

The power station and LXII felt great and sounded great, but something seemed off when running amp sims that were of non 6L6 tubes. Also the limitation of not being able to use different cab sims for different patches was too limiting for my application.

The Matrix sounds great and feels very amp-like. It sounded great with the CLR passive cabs.

Also playing out and rehearsing so often, the weight of my gear started to be a major factor.

Now I am using the EV PXM-12MP

Last gig, I just sent an output from the AXE-FX directly to FOH and felt confident it would be close to what I was hearing out of my EV PXM. Previously, it required tweaking to get it to sound close.
 
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northern_fox said:
I might have gotten into an argument with that guy in discord lol. But yeah - the words "neutral" and "flat" describe only one portion of a power amp's characteristics. I don't understand why that's so hard for people to grasp. Just because something is flat doesn't mean it's not possible to create a better sounding product that is also flat (or even not flat).
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If one has only tried the budget stuff and already calls it perfect, that’s where the problem lies. People like him are trying to prove they know better and try to get away with cheap stuff. Now it works up to a certain point. Your hearing and taste should evolve along the way and you’ll use the same stuff until you run into problems or decide to try something else (be that better, more expensive or just different).

I’ll believe something sounds ”flat” or ”neutral” as soon as I’ll hear it myself or enough reputable people agree on that. For the time being I’ve only heard his clips that have not sounded flat, neutral or good IMHO. He seems to think I’m saying all this only because I’m trying to entitle myself to use all the high-end gear. Dude, I’m only telling what I hear, and it’s way off. Reminds me of myself using an Amplitube 2 with a cheap guitar over 10 years ago and calling it ”the perfect guitar sound”. That opinion lasted for a few weeks at best.
 
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greiswig said:
People get really hung up on AB versus D class amplification. All other things being equal, I challenge anyone to tell the difference between the two in an undistorted output, blind test.
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I noticed a night day difference going from a SD170 to a Fryette Power Station.

I can also say, the Matrix GT1000FX felt and sounded great. It was not harsh or stiff feeling.
 
4406cuda said:
I noticed a night day difference going from a SD170 to a Fryette Power Station.

I can also say, the Matrix GT1000FX felt and sounded great. It was not harsh or stiff feeling.
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All I'm saying is my guess is that difference has little to do with the class of amplification, and more to do with the class of product. Or maybe there was so little headroom in one that it really WAS distorting the signal.

Again, find two amps with similar output power, designed to be flat, run them at lower than distortion levels, level match them and do a proper blind test on any audio signal you care to. You probably shouldn't believe me any more than you should believe the marketing hype behind Class AB versus Class D.
 
greiswig said:
All I'm saying is my guess is that difference has little to do with the class of amplification, and more to do with the class of product. Or maybe there was so little headroom in one that it really WAS distorting the signal.

Again, find two amps with similar output power, designed to be flat, run them at lower than distortion levels, level match them and do a proper blind test on any audio signal you care to. You probably shouldn't believe me any more than you should believe the marketing hype behind Class AB versus Class D.
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The signal was not distorted. It just felt stiff and harsh. The SD170 cost about $400
 
greiswig said:
Not at all. The AxeFX is what should be applying the distortion, not your own power amp. Unless that's how you have it set up...but I wouldn't want to be distorting any Crown, QSC, EV or Behringer power amp to get a decent guitar sound out of it!
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Agreed, It seemed as tho you were saying the overall guitar tone( distorted) , and getting power amp distortion from SS any class SS amp doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
 
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4406cuda said:
The signal was not distorted. It just felt stiff and harsh. The SD170 cost about $400
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Agreed, the SD170 took me less than 5 minutes to understand what it is and the sound and feel of it wasnt for me. Don't care what class or type SS amp its supposed to be. It's a pedal board amp, making it ideal for a 3k+ rack mounted professional guitar rig is a pipe dream..Will it work, yes. All interested please enjoy. SD is not typically known for SS pa over the decades, if so it sure isn't anything that was ever a household name outside of pick ups
 
“…making it ideal for a 3k+ rack mounted professional guitar rig is a pipe dream…”

Guess I am living the dream. I just plugged my $400 Ibanez into my PS-200/Axe FX -III and it felt so wrong…yet so right.
 
mtb said:
“…making it ideal for a 3k+ rack mounted professional guitar rig is a pipe dream…”

Guess I am living the dream. I just plugged my $400 Ibanez into my PS-200/Axe FX -III and it felt so wrong…yet so right.
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Dude, it's an opinion, please get over yourself. If you like the amp that's great, if you feel the need to defend it perhaps it's not as highly regarded as you'd like it to be, sorry
 
mtb said:
Get over myself? What are you talking about? I just gave my opinion, as you have. Seems you take issue with others giving theirs. Have a nice day. 🙂
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Dude , you quoted my opinion with snarky bs, so yes get over yourself.. if you are just posting your opinion please do so without quoting someone and being a smart ass. Please let me know when you hear from John Bolinger and post a vid about the rig rundown with the SD200, I would definitely enjoy that. Have a nice day Bud
 
Is the matrix class AB? How can it be it only weighs 9 lbs? Anyone using Behringer?
 
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You guys can laugh if you want. I use a Rolls RA235 stereo class A/B poweramp in my fractal rigs. It is only 2x35 but it gets pretty loud with guitar cabinets. Live, I always had a FOH feed or mic anyway so it was for my own listening.

I drill two holes in the back and solder in 1/4" output jacks to make it more usable with guitar cabinets.

They are made in the USA and are only a couple hundred bucks new but they show up used pretty regularly for under $200. They weigh very little.

I briefly compared to a GT800fx back in the Ultra days and kept the rolls because it sounded great and cost so little.

I got a GT1000fx as part of a package buy and used it with the AxeFX3 for a while. I finally decided to sell it and dig the old rolls back out because I was mostly back to amp heads. When I hooked it up, I was pleasantly surprised. It sounded great. I can't believe it sounded better than the matrix but I think it did.

It is 2x35 watts. It isn't going to carry stadiums. It seems to want an 8 ohm load. The webpage says 4/8 . The manual says 8.
 
Musikron said:
I ain't even gonna lie. The period where I received the most complements on my live tone (by FAR), was the 4 years I ran an Ultra into my Randall RS125xl powered by a Beringer inuke3000. More compliments than my expensive tube rigs, or my more modern FM9 going direct to FOH. I probably received more blind accolades with that rig than all my others combined over 30 years of gigging. All you could see from the stage was my GCP on the floor, and my cab. The Axe and power amp were hidden off stage somewhere.
I wouldn't hesitate to roll that rig out ANYWHERE tomorrow.
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Ultra into my
Randall RS125xl powered by a
Beringer inuke3000 - https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B1P

What tones were you getting out - Plexi Marshall, Fender twin, AC30.....?

Where you placing a mic in from the cab for venues to feed into the PA?
 
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