4CM hissing

Here is a FAQ from Radial about the direct box in reverse vs a reamper. More along the lines of what Steve was saying,

Q: What difference is there, if any, between using the JDI or ProDI
in reverse for re-amping versus using the ProRMP?
A: The ProRMP is equipped with a +4dB balanced line-level input designed to accept a signal from a mixing console or recorder while the JDI or ProDI wants to 'see' a -60dB mic level input so that the transformer will not be saturated. If you are careful, you can use a DI backwards... the ProRMP is designed to be easier to use.
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In my case the revesre DI may have been a function of the source material too. It was that bogner dry clip.
 
javajunkie said:
Q: What difference is there, if any, between using the JDI or ProDI
in reverse for re-amping versus using the ProRMP?
A: The ProRMP is equipped with a +4dB balanced line-level input designed to accept a signal from a mixing console or recorder while the JDI or ProDI wants to 'see' a -60dB mic level input so that the transformer will not be saturated. If you are careful, you can use a DI backwards... the ProRMP is designed to be easier to use.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. I used the reverse DI because I happened to have one laying around so it was easy to try without buying something new.
 
steveb said:
javajunkie said:
Q: What difference is there, if any, between using the JDI or ProDI
in reverse for re-amping versus using the ProRMP?
A: The ProRMP is equipped with a +4dB balanced line-level input designed to accept a signal from a mixing console or recorder while the JDI or ProDI wants to 'see' a -60dB mic level input so that the transformer will not be saturated. If you are careful, you can use a DI backwards... the ProRMP is designed to be easier to use.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. I used the reverse DI because I happened to have one laying around so it was easy to try without buying something new.
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I did the same when we were doing the reamp thing w/ the Bogner. There was no way I was going to spend $200 bucks just for that :D
 
javajunkie said:
I did the same when we were doing the reamp thing w/ the Bogner. There was no way I was going to spend $200 bucks just for that :D
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In the other thread I mention a schematic I found online for a reamp box... I'll probably build one of those. Looks like a fun and small project, and probably will cost less than $50 compared to a couple hundred.
 
Is there any update on this? Has anybody tried one of the reamp boxes to see if it fixes the noise issue?
 
Wondering the same thing... I'd try the Reamp box but I can't even find a way on their site to contact the company to see what their return policy is etc if it doesn't work. Would also like to ask a couple questions before I buy it, but there's absolutely no contact info anywhere - what kind of company does that?
 
Tabs said:
Wondering the same thing... I'd try the Reamp box but I can't even find a way on their site to contact the company to see what their return policy is etc if it doesn't work. Would also like to ask a couple questions before I buy it, but there's absolutely no contact info anywhere - what kind of company does that?
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I hear ya. I've been toying with getting one, but throwing another $200 out to get my $2000 effects processor to work properly is frustrating. If I knew for certain it would fix the problem I'd go ahead and order one.
 
There's actually a contact page on their site now... sending them an email. I'll let you know what they say.
 
John Cuniberti replied to me already about the Reamp:

"If the Axe-FX's line output is a balanced +4 the Reamp should work fine."

I'm thinking this means no right? Out 2 is unbalanced only...
 
Just curious if there has been any progress on this issue.

I am using the 4CM with my Mesa Mark IV and get a hiss (not terribly loud, but noticeable) when using the lead channel preamp.

I am using an Ebtech Hum Eliminator and it does help, btu doesn't make all teh noise go away.

Just lik eothers, if I plug straight into my Mark IV, there is ZERO noise/hum/hiss.

There is definitely something between the Axe and the input of the Mark IV that is causing this.

Kind of frustrating
 
Any time you do an A/D or D/A conversion you add noise, a minimum of 3 dB each time. With the 4CM you've got four conversions so you're going to add at least 12 dB of noise. Just the nature of the beast and why I'm not a big advocate.
 
FractalAudio said:
Any time you do an A/D or D/A conversion you add noise, a minimum of 3 dB each time. With the 4CM you've got four conversions so you're going to add at least 12 dB of noise. Just the nature of the beast and why I'm not a big advocate.
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So Cliff, is the noise issue due to 4 digital/analog conversions or due to the signal being line level instead of instrument level, as you mentioned previously?

Also, is it possible modify the firmware to make a midi CC message send when the wah auto-engage turns on/off? If tghis is possible then I could use my Axess GRX4 switcher to toggle the Axe's pre section when the wah is on and leave it off the rest of the time.
 
One other thing regarding 4 conversions...

If you use the Axe at all you are already getting 2 conversions. Using the four cable method only goes from 2 to 4, not 0 to 4. With as quiet as the first two conversions are it seems weird the second two would be so drastic.
 
It also has to do with gain staging. With the 4CM and then going into a high gain preamp you're adding the noise before the gain. Those two conversions are now before a high gain stage (your preamp).

It's a combination of line-level outputs, the number of conversions and gain staging.
 
Thanks for the answers on why it's happening Cliff. Just curious though - isn't it really just 2 conversions happening on the signal path that goes into the amp's input? You've got the A2D that happens going into the Axe-FX, then the D2A going out of the Axe-FX into the amp. The other two conversions are post preamp coming off the amp's loop send. As far as I could tell, the noise level was the same with the other part of the chain (my post effects) disconnected.

I've unfortunately got a very hard decision to make now I guess... sell the Axe-FX and figure something else out or sell the VH4 and use the Axe-FX + power amp. Argh...
 
This is pretty frustrating and I'm out. I'm not selling the Axe, but I'm giving up on the 4cm. Unfortunately I sold my rack wah and my phaser pedal and now I found another guy who will sell me a rack wah and I guess I'll buy some pedals as I can afford them. This is depressing because I felt one of the things the Axe is marketed as (and a big part of why I bought it) is being able to put effects both before and after your amp and it does not do it like it should.
 
I don't know the answer to this, because I have never used rack effects before, but do other effects processors (Eventide, etc) do the same thing?

If the answer is yes, then I guess it is just the nature of the beast. If the answer is no, then I am confused as to why they would work and the Axe Fx doesn't in the 4CM.


Certainly not trying to be difficult...I love my Axe...., but I am very disapointed that the unit doesn't work well in this configuration.
 
bstaley said:
This is pretty frustrating and I'm out. I'm not selling the Axe, but I'm giving up on the 4cm. Unfortunately I sold my rack wah and my phaser pedal and now I found another guy who will sell me a rack wah and I guess I'll buy some pedals as I can afford them. This is depressing because I felt one of the things the Axe is marketed as (and a big part of why I bought it) is being able to put effects both before and after your amp and it does not do it like it should.
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Yeah I agree - I specifically asked about exactly what I wanted to do with the Axe-FX before I ordered it on the old forum and everyone assured me it did that flawlessly etc...

mctallica1 said:
I don't know the answer to this, because I have never used rack effects before, but do other effects processors (Eventide, etc) do the same thing?

If the answer is yes, then I guess it is just the nature of the beast. If the answer is no, then I am confused as to why they would work and the Axe Fx doesn't in the 4CM.


Certainly not trying to be difficult...I love my Axe...., but I am very disapointed that the unit doesn't work well in this configuration.
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Eventides and the like are usually used in post configuration only, coming off the amp's effects loop. It's not the 4CM in most circumstances.

I have a friend in another band here who uses a G-System in the 4CM tho and he doesn't have noise issues like this, so I still have to wonder if something else is happening here...
 
I have a friend in another band here who uses a G-System in the 4CM tho and he doesn't have noise issues like this, so I still have to wonder if something else is happening here...
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Neither did the mpx-g2. Then again I tried it with my set up and it worked fine no major hiss. I did not try it with really hi gain though.
 
javajunkie said:
I have a friend in another band here who uses a G-System in the 4CM tho and he doesn't have noise issues like this, so I still have to wonder if something else is happening here...
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Neither did the mpx-g2. Then again I tried it with my set up and it worked fine no major hiss. I did not try it with really hi gain though.
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You're right. I had a G2 and didn't have these noise troubles. The effects (except reverb) were not in the same league as the Axe, but they got the 4cm right.
 
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