Active/Passive Presence/Depth parameter behaviour

Active/Passive state of the Presence and Depth default to optimal value for selected Amp Type


  • Total voters
    9

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before.
[Please see the Release Notes for version 7.18 to know what I'm talking about.]

I'd really like it if this advanced Amp Block parameter would default to the best possible position for the Amp Type selected whenever we select a new Amp Type, just as the other advanced Amp Block parameters default to their optimal values.

As it is now if you've messed with this parameter and then switch to a different Amp Type it will stay on the previous selection.
I, for one, like to have some idea of the way the real-world-amp being modelled would sound at its best when I start shuffling through the Amp Types and begin tweaking.
If the default parameters for the Amp Types keep morphing into something else every time I audition them, then I have no way to judge their suitability for whatever it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

This particular parameter is stuck way at the end of the Advanced tab and is literally the last thing I would think to tweak or to re-check after selecting a new Amp Type.

Cliff: The 7.18 release notes state that when the Amp Block is initialized this parameter will default to Passive for both Presence and Depth.
Can we take it then that the Passive setting is where it should be set if we want the amp sims to sound as close as possible to the real-world amps being modelled?
 
joegold said:
Cliff: The 7.18 release notes state that when the Amp Block is initialized this parameter will default to Passive for both Presence and Depth.
Can we take it then that the Passive setting is where it should be set if we want the amp sims to sound as close as possible to the real-world amps being modelled?

I'm not Cliff, but yes, passive presence/depth is the setting that is more true to the amps' actual behavior. The "active" option is only there because some people would prefer to stick with the sounds they created using the older algorithm even though it's less realistic. So your request doesn't really make sense to me - ALL real-world amps effectively use the "passive" setting, so the current state - passive as default - is already the most "realistic" or "optimal" for whichever amp you select.

Personally I just switched to passive and left it there, I don't need the active option at all. It's just there for backwards compatibility.
 
chase said:
joegold said:
Cliff: The 7.18 release notes state that when the Amp Block is initialized this parameter will default to Passive for both Presence and Depth.
Can we take it then that the Passive setting is where it should be set if we want the amp sims to sound as close as possible to the real-world amps being modelled?

I'm not Cliff, but yes, passive presence/depth is the setting that is more true to the amps' actual behavior. The "active" option is only there because some people would prefer to stick with the sounds they created using the older algorithm even though it's less realistic. So your request doesn't really make sense to me - ALL real-world amps effectively use the "passive" setting, so the current state - passive as default - is already the most "realistic" or "optimal" for whichever amp you select.

Personally I just switched to passive and left it there, I don't need the active option at all. It's just there for backwards compatibility.

But it's only the "default" when you *initialize* the Amp Block.
It doesn't "default" to Passive if you merely select a new Amp Type the way that all the other Advanced Amp Block parameters default to their optimal values for the amp sim selected.
I'd like for it to default to Passive *all the time*.
Folks who are still using presets they programmed prior to version 7.18 who have updated to 7.18 or later firmware and want to have their presets unchanged still have the option of selecting Active instead of Passive.
 
Frankly I'm considering removing the parameter. I highly doubt anyone is using anything but passive now. I'd like to hear more opinions on this.
 
passive all the way, and if removing parameters that are obsolete makes room for new things, I'm all for cuttin'em out
 
I actually use 'active' on some sounds (sometimes). Especially amps which in real life do not have presence control. Sorry :)

...But, if it turns out that I'm the only one...just go ahead and take it out. There are more important things to fight for :lol:
 
FractalAudio said:
Frankly I'm considering removing the parameter. I highly doubt anyone is using anything but passive now. I'd like to hear more opinions on this.

Wouldn't bother me.
 
"Passive" here. Since it became the default, I haven't used "active" a single time. Because presence controls on a physical tube amp are in the negative feedback loop, they are, technically speaking, active tone-shaping devices. Presumably the "passive" mode models this real-world operation.
 
Passive only is fine for me, Cliff

We can still fine-tune the presence freq anyway if it happens we don't like the way presence settings affect it.
 
FractalAudio said:
Frankly I'm considering removing the parameter. I highly doubt anyone is using anything but passive now. I'd like to hear more opinions on this.
Wouldn't bother me, either.
 
chase said:
joegold said:
Cliff: The 7.18 release notes state that when the Amp Block is initialized this parameter will default to Passive for both Presence and Depth.
Can we take it then that the Passive setting is where it should be set if we want the amp sims to sound as close as possible to the real-world amps being modelled?
The "active" option is only there because some people would prefer to stick with the sounds they created using the older algorithm even though it's less realistic.

Active option is always here because some people find that it gives a more direct sound, so less mixed, when using the Axe into a real cab with a tube poweramp.
I was one of them with shredi knight if i remember well.
It always works.

Into my JTM45/100 stack i get the closest sound to my plexi by setting up the presence to activ and the HF resonance parameter to 2.48.

HF set to 5 or presence set to passiv gives a mixed sound into my cab.(specially HF)
 
I only use the passive mode.

Here's the post where Cliff explained the changes to Presence and Depth:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7471&p=72778&hilit=presence#p72778

FractalAudio said:
As Jay noted the Air control does nothing if set to zero.

The Presence control behavior is different than before and behaves like a real amp. It's not a huge departure though from how it worked before. You can still get the same results as before by varying the presence freq.

Previously the Presence control center frequency was static and set by the Presence Freq. parameter. Now the center frequency varies with the amount of Presence, just like a real amp. You can compensate for this variation using the Presence Freq. parameter if desired.

The Depth control is the one that really changed. Previously the Depth "circuit" was a band-stop filter. Now it's a shelving filter and works like a real amp.
As in a real amp, and like the presence control, the center frequency varies with the control.

The Depth circuit only occurs in real amps like the 5150 and several others. Marshalls, Mesas, Fenders, etc. don't have Depth circuits and as such the control defaults to zero when the amp type is selected. Setting the Depth control to zero disables the effect.

I have added a new parameter that allows you to select the type of Depth control: Shelving (like a real amp) or Blocking (like before). With this new parameter you'll be able to revert to the old style Depth control. I'm also debating adding a switch to revert the Presence control to the old style as well.
(emphases mine)

So there's no real advantage to active Presence; Depth is debatable, but the passive version is more realistic. In most cases I'm in favor of more flexibility in the advanced parameters but I think the benefit here is negligible, personally - I say embrace the improved realism and move forward. Shredi might still disagree.
 
FractalAudio said:
Frankly I'm considering removing the parameter. I highly doubt anyone is using anything but passive now. I'd like to hear more opinions on this.

I'm using both active and passive, and combination. They give some clarity & definition, while passive smooth out the signal somehow. Active is useful for modern sound.
 
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