no complaining...just a question about "saturation"

[Soultrash]

V10 is great when it comes to feeling, reaction, dynamics!

it's also easy to dial in very good sounds very quickly!

so what is bothering me!?

no fear, it's not fizzyness...

especially the high gain models seem to have some weird "saturation" going on.

i am always looking for clear and defined HG sounds so i leave saturation,
grid modeling, depth etc. off as it coulds up the tone a bit IMHO.

i don't know hot to describe it correctly, it's comparable to an extreme speaker drive setting,
even though speaker drive is very low in my settings.

i did a system reset and i created a completely new patch.

i feel like it's something small i just can't find the problem...

any ideas?

 

[Soultrash]

i must be hallucinating then...

 

[jeppekristoffer]

I haven't experienced what your talking about, maybe since I'm not that of a high gain guy. I think fw10 is the best that happened to me too.

But, have you tried increasing the Dynamic precence a bit and the definition parameter in the advanced settings?

Maybe that is not what you are talking about but those two things make the tone crisper clearer!?!

Maybe just decrease gain and try to find the sweet spot for the master volume?

 

[Soultrash]

have you tried increasing the Dynamic precence a bit and the definition parameter in the advanced settings?

Maybe just decrease gain and try to find the sweet spot for the master volume?

i have tried that already but unfortunately it had no effect, that's why i created this thread in the end.

no clue what it could be.

i also have all the extra tweaks like "fat", "saturation", "depth", "speaker drive", "thunk" etc. turned off.

IMHO these tweaks always add somethig that can "smear up" the tone, that's why i usually leave these off or at very low settings for my hi gain sounds.

playing with gain and MV has no effect, at least not in this stage of HG.


cheers
S.

PS:
could it be the new IR's!?

 

[Johnnyh64]

V10 is great when it comes to feeling, reaction, dynamics!

it's also easy to dial in very good sounds very quickly!

so what is bothering me!?

no fear, it's not fizzyness...

especially the high gain models seem to have some weird "saturation" going on.

i am always looking for clear and defined HG sounds so i leave saturation,
grid modeling, depth etc. off as it coulds up the tone a bit IMHO.

i don't know hot to describe it correctly, it's comparable to an extreme speaker drive setting,
even though speaker drive is very low in my settings.

i did a system reset and i created a completely new patch.

i feel like it's something small i just can't find the problem...

any ideas?

I agree with all your points. The distortion or break up of the overdrive is definitely different in 10. Fizzy is not quite the right word but it's an upper 8K or so break up sizzle or something, like bubbling soda? I notice it more in certain amps than others.

I'm not really complaining either because I absolutely love FW10 for so many tones...it's crazy, but I just wanted you to know your not the only one. I haven't figured out how to get rid of it, besides just cutting a touch of 8k but I haven't tried hard enough yet as I've been too busy wearing my fingers down to nubs.

 

[Soultrash]

i also tried to solve it with equalization but cutting the higher frequencies logically instantly results in loss of clarity.

i play in drop D atm, the "strange saturation" can be heard very good when i play triplets, i'll upload a sample when i'm at home.

lovering the gain was also an attempt but it also didn't work.

 

[Johnnyh64]

Have you tried to play with transformer match? Like I said, I haven't had time to figure out where it's coming from either, but I'm willing to bet that it can be addressed with one of the more advanced adjustments. Another that I wanted to try was increasing the value of the input trim resistance on the Layout gate page. If i find it, I'll try to post here.

 

[GM Arts]

I had one strange occurrence *once* that I think was caused by some AE weirdness. Solved by resetting the amp block with a double-click on the Axe-FX Bypass button.

What was happening was a background fuzz being mixed with a clean tone. The fuzz was pretty much constant volume, so by picking more softly and a notes decayed, the tone because fuzzier. Anyway, solved as above.

Not sure if that's what you're describing.

 

[KittyForHire]

I've found that with V10, the character of your guitar becomes even more pronounced, so it might be part of the equation. My SSS Deluxe Strat still sounds absolutely fab, even on the bridge pup which is quite trebly. My AT100CL bridge bucker reacts a little differently, with a different top end sizzle as many have pointed out, but it still sounds good. I find that I can tune this to my liking with the Triode Hardness parameter.

 

[Johnnyh64]

I've found that with V10, the character of your guitar becomes even more pronounced, .....I find that I can tune this to my liking with the Triode Hardness parameter.

I think you might be on to something. I definitely think the guitar and pickups have a major factor in this update (they always have) but I do have a bit of a top end in that range with my EMG81/85's. I might have to try the triode hardness (I forget about all these places to change the tone).

 

[Kriig]

If this is on certain amps, i bet it`s the amp itself. Is this with same IR? Probably not, since there are more than one person. What kind of IR are you using and which amp is it most detecteble?

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Why not leave it as it is (for a while) and try putting it to music and see how it blends.
Maybe you will find out it´s better than fw9 in the end.

V10 is great when it comes to feeling, reaction, dynamics!

it's also easy to dial in very good sounds very quickly!

so what is bothering me!?

no fear, it's not fizzyness...

especially the high gain models seem to have some weird "saturation" going on.

i am always looking for clear and defined HG sounds so i leave saturation,
grid modeling, depth etc. off as it coulds up the tone a bit IMHO.

i don't know hot to describe it correctly, it's comparable to an extreme speaker drive setting,
even though speaker drive is very low in my settings.

i did a system reset and i created a completely new patch.

i feel like it's something small i just can't find the problem...

any ideas?

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Could this be a noise-gate-related issue ?

I had one strange occurrence *once* that I think was caused by some AE weirdness. Solved by resetting the amp block with a double-click on the Axe-FX Bypass button.

What was happening was a background fuzz being mixed with a clean tone. The fuzz was pretty much constant volume, so by picking more softly and a notes decayed, the tone because fuzzier. Anyway, solved as above.

Not sure if that's what you're describing.

 

[Soultrash]

Have you tried to play with transformer match? Like I said, I haven't had time to figure out where it's coming from either, but I'm willing to bet that it can be addressed with one of the more advanced adjustments. Another that I wanted to try was increasing the value of the input trim resistance on the Layout gate page. If i find it, I'll try to post here.

i'm usually always very deep in the advanced settings but i didn't mess with them in V10.
input trim, not sure what this is for, will check out

I had one strange occurrence *once* that I think was caused by some AE weirdness. Solved by resetting the amp block with a double-click on the Axe-FX Bypass button.

What was happening was a background fuzz being mixed with a clean tone. The fuzz was pretty much constant volume, so by picking more softly and a notes decayed, the tone because fuzzier. Anyway, solved as above.

Not sure if that's what you're describing.

just tried some of the clean presets, they sound absolutely clear (even with active EMG's) unles i hit harder.
i also tried AE and the front panel, same results so i guess it's not caused by AE

I've found that with V10, the character of your guitar becomes even more pronounced, so it might be part of the equation. My SSS Deluxe Strat still sounds absolutely fab, even on the bridge pup which is quite trebly. My AT100CL bridge bucker reacts a little differently, with a different top end sizzle as many have pointed out, but it still sounds good. I find that I can tune this to my liking with the Triode Hardness parameter.

this may be a part of it but then again it's not really "sizzle" i have to struggle with. even if i dial in a very dark tone i can hear that strange
"saturation" it's sounds like some extra fuzz like distortion is added...

If this is on certain amps, i bet it`s the amp itself. Is this with same IR? Probably not, since there are more than one person. What kind of IR are you using and which amp is it most detecteble?

i tried different IR's and different amps, it's all hi-gainers though, FAS 6160, 5153red, recto red.

 

[Soultrash]

here's the settings (Schecter Hellraiser C-1 with EMG81)

everything else at default settings

from my year long experience with the axe this should sound very defined and heavy without being too bright.

here's what it actually sounds like:

FW10 issue

there's definitively something wrong. i hope you can hear what i am talking about,
it's like some extra fuzz like saturation/distortion is added. it's especially present in the triplets...

 

[Cobrango]

"To "age" your amp: turn Supply Sag up, B+ Time down, MV up (if not already). As you play single notes you'll hear ghost notes due to the supply ripple." - Cliff.

I noticed this playing a preset, I was like "what the.." and then I increased the B+ time Constant in the dynamics section of the amp block and it was all good.

I'm going to use the DC power supply type to avoid this. Some "charming" qualities of an authentic amp is just not for me

Edit: I totally hear you on the clip above. the shizzle in the top end, it's kind of constant and does not change with the rhythm that much. as if there is a loose plastic laying over the speaker or something. just a hair of extra thin grain which sounds kind of isolated from the rest. It could be that it's just extra fizz that's supposed to be there with the more amp like quality. I mean that it's a part of being 100% real amo sounding. IMHO I'm not sure what this is. but I hear it as an extra kind of phenomenon going on. I do.

 

[Soultrash]

It could be that it's just extra fizz that's supposed to be there with the more amp like quality. I mean that it's a part of being 100% real amo sounding.
IMHO I'm not sure what this is. but I hear it as an extra kind of phenomenon going on. I do.

well, i have the same theory that this "extra phenomenon" is a result of MIMIC, so basically it's a good thing as it gets so close to the real thing.
then again i have heard so may great recordings where exactly the same amps (the real ones) are used and i can't hear this strange "fizz/distortion/saturation" anywhere

about the settings...i always have SAG at near 2, this worked best with my AXE standard back then so i kinda stayed with this value.
funny incident that in FW10 lots of amps have 2 as the default value...

never messed with B+ i'll try that now.

the new features, need to read into that first,
i know about AC and DC but i don't have a clue what it does to the sound.

cheers
S.

 

[NaturalScience]

That's the highest default dynamic presence value I've seen on an amp yet. Maybe try turning that down?

Also try cutting the character parameter by a bit.

 

[Cobrango]

I recommend everyone to just click on the red FractalAudio nickname at the first page of the forum "logged on users" or something - Cliffs user to see what he's been saying lately.

Before I was just randoming through threads and everytime Cliff was saying something I went "weehoo, a Cliffpost!". It's just easier that way to see what he's saying.

There you can see that he's been saying something about the "ghost notes" being able to appear in the AC setting, and that the feel could be a bit different

 

[Soultrash]

That's the highest default dynamic presence value I've seen on an amp yet. Maybe try turning that down?

Also try cutting the character parameter by a bit.

i've tried various settings on dynamic presence, don't think that this is causing the problem.
i will try the character parameter

I recommend everyone to just click on the red FractalAudio nickname at the first page of the forum "logged on users" or something - Cliffs user to see what he's been saying lately.

Before I was just randoming through threads and everytime Cliff was saying something I went "weehoo, a Cliffpost!". It's just easier that way to see what he's saying.

There you can see that he's been saying something about the "ghost notes" being able to appear in the AC setting, and that the feel could be a bit different

yeah, actually i do this all the time, only problem is, even cliff explains it, most of the time i don't have a clue what it means