250$ for Metallica Black Album Preset

JiveTurkey said:
I got Eternal Nightmare on vinyl when it came out but I can't say as I ever listened to the whole thing.
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Yeah, that's one where I listened to it once and forgot about it haha. I'm like that with every band; I usually just hang on to between one to three albums that I think are cool. I think metal bands especially, in the era that I care about, changed so much from album to album, it can really just be like listening to a different band altogether, even with the same lineup. I'm never loyal to bands at all, just the snippets of their careers that actually hit me, and for me, it's always just snippets.
 
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State of Epicicity said:
Someone mentioned it already, but the way to do this is with DI clips from you. That is the most important thing, and I think any one of the dudes on this forum making professional presets can do this for you really well.

Dave Lombardo threw the Black Album down a flight of stairs when it was released; I do the same thing in my mind whenever I think about it. I do like the ballads on that album, as always with the exception of anything having to do with Hammett; I think they should’ve changed their name at that point.

Every bigger thrash band followed suit, and I felt the same way about all their efforts too, so I perpetually live in the heyday of Horrorscope (Overkill), …And Justice For All, Persistence of Time (Anthrax), Twisted Into Form (Forbidden), Oppressing The Masses (Vio-Lence), For Whose Advantage (Xentrix), Victims of Deception (Heathen), etc. thrash. To me it’s just home.
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There're already 3 peoples who PM me with that request so i'm gonna give them that DI track of mine as soon as i can take the time to make it but base on all the posts in this thread so far , pretty much everybody seem to think that it's a impossible sound to achieve...even with all the "horse power" of the AF3 so i'm not "holding my breath"...
 
MrBurns666 said:
I've just finish testing all the suggestions that i've receive so far and the one that seem to sound the best to me would be the preset
from Singtall combine with the IR from lucasMetallicaentersandmanaxe.
With that said , it's still sound quite close from the result i already had , i was using the Dyna-Cab so the Lucas IR kinda help getting a bit closer of the Black Album Tone but it's still sound "like a live" guitar for a lack of better words , it doesn't sound "ultra process" like the sound clip that i've provide.
I'm looking for that "ultra-process" type of sound.
I'm aware that you can't get that kind of sound from a "normal setup" ( one guitar and one amp ) but the possibility of the AXE FX 3 goes
far beyond this so call "normal setup" so i'm hoping that somebody can make a miracle happen...
Or maybe it's absolutely impossible to achieve that
I guess time will tell...
Thanks so far Guys !!
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I think the problem is the "ultra processed" tone you are talking about. What you hear, and what everyone else hears is gonna be different. To my ears, my quick preset sounds close to dead on. If you use tonematch you can get it the rest of the way as Moke pointed out. If you tried tonematch and still don't hear what you think is perfect, then I suggest you try a different approach to the way you are hearing it. try recording your guitar part and then A/B it against the recording you want to sound like. Listening to a preset while playing your guitar introduces the sound of your guitar strings to what you are hearing (and feeling). In a recording that has been properly tonematched, there just isn't enough difference for most people to hear.
 
The "heavy lifting" is finding the right amp to give the correct amount of crunch, then finding a cabinet that sounds close. from there tonematch is all that's left to do.
 
Singtall said:
I think the problem is the "ultra processed" tone you are talking about. What you hear, and what everyone else hears is gonna be different. To my ears, my quick preset sounds close to dead on. If you use tonematch you can get it the rest of the way as Moke pointed out. If you tried tonematch and still don't hear what you think is perfect, then I suggest you try a different approach to the way you are hearing it. try recording your guitar part and then A/B it against the recording you want to sound like. Listening to a preset while playing your guitar introduces the sound of your guitar strings to what you are hearing (and feeling). In a recording that has been properly tonematched, there just isn't enough difference for most people to hear.
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I'm really aware that the "ultra processed" part is the problematic part. Like i've already mention , the preset that i was able to create myself is in the same "ballpark" that the best preset suggestion that i've receive so far.
All the informations about the Black Album Recording technic is already "out there".
Over the years , i've read many things over different forums and watch many videos about this very subject,some of them with Bob Rock himself.
I own 3 original Mark IIC+ head amp , i did quite a lot of experimentation to get that sound using a "normal setup" ( guitar , amp , mics ) but i've always felt short...
I though that my rather limited "sound engineer" experience was stoping me from reaching that "ultra processed" type of sound but maybe it's just not possible to get that sound and did mention it in my very first post , i'm aware of that possibility.
I though that the AX3 with all his "horse power" would be different but the truth is I don't know what is possible with the AF3...
I'll give my DI track to the peoples in my PM box so they can give it a try but after that i'll just have to accept the fact that it's not possible to achieve that sound...
 
MrBurns666 said:
And which one in my inventory would be the " X , the Y and the Z " ??
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Very nice

You are probably better off posting on one of the metal recording groups or even seeking out the people who “how I recreated this sound” etc on YT.

Most of the replies for this sort of thing are like I previously posted or randommember123 who just tone matches stems with some random amp then sells them and updates them for each FW.

There were two people doing this with Metallica sounds a few years back complete cookie cutter. Another who learnt how to IR match from free tutorials then started selling his “services” .... sigh...

There are probably a few here that can help but just expect a lot of noise..
 
axl-fx said:
Very nice

You are probably better off posting on one of the metal recording groups or even seeking out the people who “how I recreated this sound” etc on YT.

Most of the replies for this sort of thing are like I previously posted or randommember123 who just tone matches stems with some random amp then sells them and updates them for each FW.

There were two people doing this with Metallica sounds a few years back complete cookie cutter. Another who learnt how to IR match from free tutorials then started selling his “services” .... sigh...

There are probably a few here that can help but just expect a lot of noise..
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It's like that in every forums , everybody have a opinion , some express that opinion "louder" than other , some peoples think they know everything , you never know who you dealing with , one could be a multi million dollars studio owner with years of experience and another one could be a 13 years old kid in his bedroom...
You have to be prepared for " the good , the bad and the ugly..."
 
MrBurns666 said:
There're already 3 peoples who PM me with that request so i'm gonna give them that DI track of mine as soon as i can take the time to make it but base on all the posts in this thread so far , pretty much everybody seem to think that it's a impossible sound to achieve...even with all the "horse power" of the AF3 so i'm not "holding my breath"...
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Dude, I think someone can completely get you there. I would not be pessimistic at all. I know the tones are layered and EQ’d like nobody’s business, but you can recreate that with different methods. The people on this forum have created out of this world great tones in every shade and color of guitar playing, so I think you’re in good hands. I think you’ll be shocked at how good the results will be, especially since you were cool to provide DI tracks.

The other thing to keep in mind is, the tone may be a little different song to song, so you may need a few tones to recreate the album’s gargantuan rhythm guitar, depending on the songs you’re really focused on.

And Sneap said in an interview it’s probably the ultimate metal tone, and I think the production of every part of that album is some of the best you’d ever want to hear.

Best of luck!
 
State of Epicicity said:
Dude, I think someone can completely get you there. I would not be pessimistic at all. I know the tones are layered and EQ’d like nobody’s business, but you can recreate that with different methods. The people on this forum have created out of this world great tones in every shade and color of guitar playing, so I think you’re in good hands. I think you’ll be shocked at how good the results will be, especially since you were cool to provide DI tracks.

The other thing to keep in mind is, the tone may be a little different song to song, so you may need a few tones to recreate the album’s gargantuan rhythm guitar, depending on the songs you’re really focused on.

And Sneap said in an interview it’s probably the ultimate metal tone, and I think the production of every part of that album is some of the best you’d ever want to hear.

Best of luck!
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Well i guess we'll see...
I haven't give up yet but i'm much less optimist than before posting on this forum.
I've start playing guitar two years before the Black Album came out and i really like that album.
The songs and the sound. The very last Metallica album that i've like.
I don't consider the Black album a "metal" album , it's more in the "Hard Rock" category to me.
I totally give up on them after St-Anger , didn't like the songs and the sound ( ohh that snare sound...)
 
Here is a quick video comparing the YouTube clip, provided as the "target tone", to a few tones shared in this thread. @Singtall's preset, @Singtall's preset with Lucas' IR (mentioned by the OP as the best so far), the 'Black' scene from @rossipedia's preset, and a slightly re-tweaked version 3 of mine.

There is still a little something in the low mids that isn't quite there yet. Probably some multi-compression keeping things in check as the piece is played? Some more time spent could probably flesh it out? But I doubt that the difference could be heard in the context of a mix.
 
IronSean said:
IRs can be shot with mics, the Axe simulates some mic preamp work in the cab block, there are compressors and other post processing tools. Can some of that "Studio magic" not be created in a preset?
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Yes, but only to a degree. There is a reason a lot of that outboard is 10s and collaboratively 100s of thousands of dollars regarding the final product we hear on TBA. As good as the AFIII is, I dont think it intends to replace killer mic Pres and channel strips.

When i first started micing my own amps, I really didnt understand why the SM57 was the go to dynamic mic. I was using my stock Profire mic pres. Let me tell you as soon as I heard the Vintech 273 with the same amp and mic, I understood. The difference was DRASTIC and drastically better.

Today, I’m a big fan of my UAD unison pres. To me they sound great and I definitely hear the improvement over just going straight in. Still, Im eying mic pres in the 1k a channel range. There is just no substitute currently to great outboard. You can come close, and make no mistakes the AFIII, unison pres or whatever can get you all the way to a Grammy. It’s all about the song. After the song, its the production and talent of the mix engineer and producer. Last is the tools.
 
Moke said:
Here is a quick video comparing the YouTube clip, provided as the "target tone", to a few tones shared in this thread. @Singtall's preset, @Singtall's preset with Lucas' IR (mentioned by the OP as the best so far), the 'Black' scene from @rossipedia's preset, and a slightly re-tweaked version 3 of mine.

There is still a little something in the low mids that isn't quite there yet. Probably some multi-compression keeping things in check as the piece is played? Some more time spent could probably flesh it out? But I doubt that the difference could be heard in the context of a mix.
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Well there you go!
 
Moke said:
Here is a quick video comparing the YouTube clip, provided as the "target tone", to a few tones shared in this thread. @Singtall's preset, @Singtall's preset with Lucas' IR (mentioned by the OP as the best so far), the 'Black' scene from @rossipedia's preset, and a slightly re-tweaked version 3 of mine.

There is still a little something in the low mids that isn't quite there yet. Probably some multi-compression keeping things in check as the piece is played? Some more time spent could probably flesh it out? But I doubt that the difference could be heard in the context of a mix.
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Listening on a crappy iPhone that’s definitely close maybe a little looser , is there any time matching going on?

I probably wouldn’t try to tackle recreating that sound without using an emg 81 either but still if there is zero tone matching going on that’s pretty good.
 
The YT clip sounds layered, I know James usually adds a center track to his L/R rhythms, I wonder if the extra smoothing we're hearing in the YT clip is do to the overdubs 🤔

Also, I guarantee there's quite a bit of difference just due to how James picks. Regardless, @Moke's preset is definitely the closest I've heard. Nicely done!
 
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