A tip about the presence knob

[james...]

This is probably common knowledge for some of you, but it was really eye opening for me when I learned it a few weeks ago.

I had previously assumed that having the presence on "zero" or "flat" was the real life equivalent of having the knob at noon. In reality this setting is the same as turning the presence totally off.

I realized that in all my patches, I basically had my presence close to zero. I began to experiment by putting it on 6.00 and then changing my other EQ settings to adjust.

It REALLY helped my tones sound more authentic and 3D. I found that after setting my presence to 6.00 or "noon", a lot of my other EQ knobs needed a lot less extreme tweaking.

For example, I used to have to turn the bass knob WAY down on my budda sim. But after changing the presence to it's "correct" spot, I was able to turn the bass back up close to noon. My patch sounded WAY more balanced too.

 

[marshall2553]

Thanks for the tip! I remember reading something to that effect in the manual but had forgotten. I'm going to give it a try now.

 

[axel]

This would only be true if the presence mode was set to "Active". A "Passive" setting would relate to most amps where the center position would be "5" rather than "0".

 

[RDeraz]

This would only be true if the presence mode was set to "Active". A "Passive" setting would relate to most amps where the center position would be "5" rather than "0".

thanks for clearing that up Axel.i thought the same but wasn't quite sure.the wiki manual needs to be updated for the presence /depth features.

 

[chase]

Actually, presence has the same bipolar (negative/positive) range regardless of whether it's active or passive. Don't look at the knob position, look at the values: zero (noon) is the same as zero on a physical amp. Up to 10 works the same as presence on a physical amp (so 5.00 - halfway - is the same as noon on a physical amp), down to -10 is negative presence, which isn't generally available on physical amps (but use negative presence for the Cut knob on AC30 and Top Boost models). Active vs passive determines how the presence sounds - active is the idealized circuit, passive is more accurate to the way the amps actually work - but the range doesn't change, zero is still zero and 5.00 is still half-up.

It's confusing because presence doesn't work the same as the tone controls (bass/mid/treble), for which 5.00 = noon, and active vs passive does change the range. But negative presence is cool.

 

[Ochanomizu]

This whole active/passive and noon/zero thing for the controls confuses the hell out of me! OK, I admit it, I'm a dunce when it comes to all this stuff. I love the flexibility, but really getting confused here on the terminology and tweakability.

Don't worry, I love my Axe, but want to make sure I "get it" and can maximise my Axe.


Cheers

 

[VegaBaby]

Actually, presence has the same bipolar (negative/positive) range regardless of whether it's active or passive. Don't look at the knob position, look at the values: zero (noon) is the same as zero on a physical amp. Up to 10 works the same as presence on a physical amp (so 5.00 - halfway - is the same as noon on a physical amp), down to -10 is negative presence, which isn't generally available on physical amps (but use negative presence for the Cut knob on AC30 and Top Boost models). Active vs passive determines how the presence sounds - active is the idealized circuit, passive is more accurate to the way the amps actually work - but the range doesn't change, zero is still zero and 5.00 is still half-up.

It's confusing because presence doesn't work the same as the tone controls (bass/mid/treble), for which 5.00 = noon, and active vs passive does change the range. But negative presence is cool.

+1

This is correct.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

This whole active/passive and noon/zero thing for the controls confuses the hell out of me! OK, I admit it, I'm a dunce when it comes to all this stuff. I love the flexibility, but really getting confused here on the terminology and tweakability.

Don't worry, I love my Axe, but want to make sure I "get it" and can maximise my Axe.

Then allow me to clear it all up for you.

Turn the knobs until it sounds good, and ignore what they say or what position they are in.

 

[Scott Peterson]

This whole active/passive and noon/zero thing for the controls confuses the hell out of me! OK, I admit it, I'm a dunce when it comes to all this stuff. I love the flexibility, but really getting confused here on the terminology and tweakability.

Don't worry, I love my Axe, but want to make sure I "get it" and can maximise my Axe.

Then allow me to clear it all up for you.

Turn the knobs until it sounds good, and ignore what they say or what position they are in.

+1

 

[Baracus]

I could see how this might initially screw some people up considering the other basic amp controls are used in a more traditional way.

 

[stevorc321]

Well...I don't agree - presence defaults to noon which suggests to me that (regardless what the 'number' says) noon represents a mid point '5' on a traditional amp. I doesn't follow that Cliff would set it so that presence defaults to what would be 'zero' on a trad amp. That would be way dark. So I think regardless of what the value says, noon equates to '5' - it just uses a different scale to the other tone controls. Noon just doesn't sound like 'zero' to me and it defies logic that it would default to 'presence off' for all amp sims. Perhaps Cliff can chime in??

 

[rsf1977]

ok, after seeing flashbacks of the "Who's on First" routine, let me see if i got this right lol. The presence regardless if "active" or "passive" is at 0 when it's in the noon position? So when you turn it below noon you're dialing in negative presence? What the heck is negative presence lol!? I guess it's similar to Keanu Reeves on screen lol.

 

[yek]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12221&p=116831&hilit=presence#p116831

 

[stevorc321]

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12221&p=116831&hilit=presence#p116831

Yeah, these guys are saying noon = 'presence off' as well, but it doesn't sound like it to me. Noon = a reading of '0' on the Axe-fx, that's pretty obvious, but I'm not convinced it equals 'presence at zero on the real amp'. Why would all the sims default to the equivalent (in the real amp) of a presence of zero? That would be the same as the treble, mid or bass defaulting to zero - not really representative of the typical sound of the amp in question. I think people are missing that the Axe-FX value of '0' is an arbitrary value assigned by Cliff. It doesn't necessarily mean 'same as zero on the real amp'.

 

[rsf1977]

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12221&p=116831&hilit=presence#p116831

Yeah, these guys are saying noon = 'presence off' as well, but it doesn't sound like it to me. Noon = a reading of '0' on the Axe-fx, that's pretty obvious, but I'm not convinced it equals 'presence at zero on the real amp'. Why would all the sims default to the equivalent (in the real amp) of a presence of zero? That would be the same as the treble, mid or bass defaulting to zero - not really representative of the typical sound of the amp in question. I think people are missing that the Axe-FX value of '0' is an arbitrary value assigned by Cliff. It doesn't necessarily mean 'same as zero on the real amp'.

i agree on any amp i've owned if i turned the presence to nil there would be serious issues. I don't buy this

 

[dk_ace]

http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12221&p=116831&hilit=presence#p116831

Yeah, these guys are saying noon = 'presence off' as well, but it doesn't sound like it to me. Noon = a reading of '0' on the Axe-fx, that's pretty obvious, but I'm not convinced it equals 'presence at zero on the real amp'. Why would all the sims default to the equivalent (in the real amp) of a presence of zero? That would be the same as the treble, mid or bass defaulting to zero - not really representative of the typical sound of the amp in question. I think people are missing that the Axe-FX value of '0' is an arbitrary value assigned by Cliff. It doesn't necessarily mean 'same as zero on the real amp'.

i agree on any amp i've owned if i turned the presence to nil there would be serious issues. I don't buy this

Whether you buy it or not, Cliff has said this is how the presence control works. Noon is "0" on a traditional amp, to the left is negative presence similar to the cut control on an AC-30, to the right is adding presence as in a traditional amp circuit.

The presence control works differently than the TMB controls. In the end, set the knobs where they sound best to you and don't worry about what that correlates to. I like some amps at zero, others at 5+, some in the negatives. All that matters is that I like the end result.

D

 

[xpenno]

From the user manual.

"This control actually has a greater range than a standard presence control. Values greater than zero behave like a typical tube amp, values less than zero actually reduce the high-frequency response even further."

Surly this proves that the OP is correct? It's something that I never really thought about before I just set it where it sounded good but it's always nice to know.

Spence

 

[Scott Peterson]

Use your ears.

It's apparent to me, IMHO, YMMV, all that - that "0 = 0". We can agree on that no? The available range on the Axe-FX's presence control is 'greater' than normal presence pots found on amps. On analog amps with presence controls, they range from say 0 -10 on the knob. The Axe-FX goes from say -10 to +10. Zero equals zero. That's clearly stated in the manual. So 'noon' on a given presence pot on an amp correlates to a setting of "+5.0" in the Axe-FX.

Just turn on the darn thing and change the setting and listen.

Use your ears.

Trust your ears.

"Tweaking" with your eyes needs to stop or slow up; all this debate seems self-evident in this humble person's opinion.... use your ears. To 'match' the range on an amp with a presence control, use the range from zero to + 10.

Zero equals zero... trust your ears. Debate... over? (Please?)

 

[deadringer]

This has been a HUGE revelation to me. I grew up using Mesa amps where you definitely want to be careful of the presence knob or pay the consequences. I just adjusted my patches using this info and things made a lot more sense. I've had my standard since before the Ultra was even available and I didn't know this little tidbit. I always thought the Axe Fx was "darker" than most of the amps it models but I'd always compensated for it by using more treble and adding eq's. Now, when I start a patch from scratch I start with the presence at 5 instead of 0 and the treble knob is much more where it is with the amps that I'm working with.

Mystery solved. Thanks guys!

 

[RDeraz]

[attachment=0:1zbq9d5t]images.jpg[/attachment:1zbq9d5t]
are you sure about that "5" setting?....is this a magic presence knob?....did you buy it from the same guy Jack bought his magic beans?do the laws of audio cease to exist on your preamp?are you sure about that 5 setting?are you sure?are you sure?!!!!!!!! :lol: just kiddin' :lol: