FX before or after the cab block?

bishop5150

bishop5150

Fractal Fanatic
Hi guys, was just wondering what's best. To run my fx before or after my cab block. I generally put a drive block first then the amp block then the cab block then all my fx. Any benefit to putting the fx blocks after the amp and put the cab block last? Just curious.
 
It depends on the effect. Sometimes I have better luck with them in different positions. I'm no expert so someone will speak up on this. If I do a harmony with the whammy it sounds good in front of my amp but typical whammy octave stuff does better for me after the amp. Reverb and delay after the cab for me.
 
Reverb and delay always after cab - these fx are meant to give more air and space, but if they go into a cab IR (which is basically an EQ curve that removes highs and lows and focuses more on mids) they won't shine at their full potential.

Regarding other "less creative" fx, if I use compression it's always before everything to give the DI more consistency, and then overdrive before amp and cab, to tighten up the bottom end.
 
Additionally, on professional recordings reverb/delay are always added after the fact with plugins, to better follow the song tempo, so after amp+cab is pretty standard procedure
 
FrancescoFiligoi said:
Reverb and delay always after cab - these fx are meant to give more air and space, but if they go into a cab IR (which is basically an EQ curve that removes highs and lows and focuses more on mids) they won't shine at their full potential.
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The above statement is not correct. Reverb and delay may have space, but they do not "add air" which would be some kind of high frequency generation. The reverb and delay are linear, so if the cab is stereo, block order makes no difference. (Also, your definition of an IR as "focusing on mids" is only valid if the speaker being captured had those properties. Most guitar speakers are mid-oriented, but an IR can have virtually any sonic characteristic imaginable.)

To answer the original question:
Any benefit to putting the fx blocks after the amp and put the cab block last?

The answer is: it depends. It really only matters for blocks which generate frequencies not present in the original signal at the output of the amp. Pitch Shifting is a good example. Try CRYSTALS before and after the cab and you'll see what I mean. (Try 100% wet pitch shifting BEFORE an amp too.) If you turn up "DRIVE" for some effects (Chorus?) this may also put shift them into this category though drive is generally used so subtly it doesn't matter, and in some cases drive after a cab can even be the desired effect. If you really push the overdrive in the preamp sim of the cab block this would be relevant to determining whether an EQ or filter came before or after the cab, but that's really an outside case.

Experiment! It's as easy as dragging and dropping blocks. Try things. Make your own way.
 
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Ok thanks. Here's a pic of the signal chain. Drive, amp, cab, pitch, delay, reverb, GEQ, filter, flanger. The FX Loop is for plugging in my iPhone to jam along with our set. I basically set it up like my tube amp rig and fx. Although I just threw in the flanger cause I needed it for s song. I tried it before the amp originally but preferred it after.image.jpeg
 
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FrancescoFiligoi said:
Additionally, on professional recordings reverb/delay are always added after the fact with plugins, to better follow the song tempo, so after amp+cab is pretty standard procedure
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this isn't true anymore either...many producers/engineers want the guitarists vibe for the track, including his effects. with pretty much everything being bpm synced these days it's easy.
 
also, some stuff sounds much different hitting the front end of the amp as opposed to being in the loop...some people love the way an amp can dirty up a signal that already has delay and verb on it. why do you think the Edge ran his SDD's in front? to get that preamp mojo.
 
Short answer: Wherever it sounds good, sky’s the limit, be experimental!
I don’t think you'll be popping any virtual tubes or output trannys.
 
Admin M@ said:
The above statement is not correct. Reverb and delay may have space, but they do not "add air" which would be some kind of high frequency generation. The reverb and delay are linear, so if the cab is stereo, block order makes no difference. (Also, your definition of an IR as "focusing on mids" is only valid if the speaker being captured had those properties. Most guitar speakers are mid-oriented, but an IR can have virtually any sonic characteristic imaginable.)
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Yea I meant guitar cab IR, not IRs in a broader way (reverbs etc). Weird, in my experience I've always found little differences in putting fx before and after, and always preferred the sound after, even if the difference was minimal. I'll experiment more with Quantum!
 
jlynnb1 said:
this isn't true anymore either...many producers/engineers want the guitarists vibe for the track, including his effects. with pretty much everything being bpm synced these days it's easy.
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That's true if the effect is very unique sounding, and not replaceable by a plugin or an "after the fact" effect. But if it's something pretty standard, I've always noticed others (and always opted myself) doing it afterwards.

After all, the only way to really nail the amount of delay/reverb applied to a lead guitar, or vocals, in the mix is to tweak it in the mix! I'm always surprised by how dry my fx sound in the mix, because adding a lot of other stuff "eats" their space, so I always find myself adding way more than what was right when listening in solo.
 
Most people "hear a difference" only when they put stereo effects before a mono cab block. The difference they hear is a collapse to mono, which is more of a mistake than a difference. Be sure to use a stereo cab block if you have stereo effects before the cab block.
 
If you use out 1 and out 2 simultaneously (out 1 balanced for FOH and inear, out1 with amp and real guitar cabs) you have to make the effects in front of the cab.
 
steadystate said:
I usually put pitch shift between the amp and the cab. All other effects after.
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This is where pitch shift works best for me too.

I put reverb between the amp and cab too. I saw some other presets like this and adopted it.

For simulating fender combo reverb I setup:

amp -> reverb -> cab -> comp

and use the comp to simulate power amp compression that compresses the verb like the real circuit of the combo amp would.
 
If anyone can make a recording showing the difference between reverb before cab vs after, I'd like to hear it. I don't hear any difference when I do that.
 
barhrecords said:
This is where pitch shift works best for me too.

I put reverb between the amp and cab too. I saw some other presets like this and adopted it.

For simulating fender combo reverb I setup:

amp -> reverb -> cab -> comp

and use the comp to simulate power amp compression that compresses the verb like the real circuit of the combo amp would.
Click to expand...

I 've done this too for the Fenders; in fact I placed a "spring" verb in between amp and cab, then a "room" verb on the tail end of the string.
 
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