Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

So the big question is.... for those of us who bought one recently and are still within the return window... do we send it back and wait for an improvement?
I wondered that too.

Or trust that the warranty will take care of it if it's truly something Fender didn't intend?
I think they’d pull a Peewee Herman and say that they meant to do that.

I don't think they can spin enough of these laughable press releases gaslighting us customers about how FRFR works
... to offset the large amount of returns and a giant warehouse full of used amps returned to GC and sweetwater they will surely have after Black Friday and Christmas. And that is tons of return shipping someone has to write off.
It’d definitely be a black eye and a PR nightmare.

They could be turned into Bstock with a new V2 preamp and re-sold. And the problem solved permanently with a solution that saves them a large chunk of their parts cost.

And any repair shop could drop a new board in in about 5 minutes for warranty replacement.
That’d be a chunk of money that they wouldn’t want to spend.

Seems like a no-brainer.
Yes. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I’m going to go buy stock in Orville Redenbacher's popcorn. :)
 
If you were me, would you return it and wait to hear more? I can't imagine the Headrush or Line 6 Powerplus can touch this amp, even with the hiss. Thanks for your time, helping a newbie to this modeler FRFR world.
I would buy another one today, hiss and all. Nothing else sounds and feels like real amp in the room, or looks that sexy.

I just have my budget set for another BadCat head this month ..so I can clone it with the Fractal through the FR-12
 
If you were me, would you return it and wait to hear more? I can't imagine the Headrush or Line 6 Powerplus can touch this amp, even with the hiss. Thanks for your time, helping a newbie to this modeler FRFR world.

IMHO, if you've already got it and the hiss isn't driving you nuts, I'd keep it. Even if the hiss does bother you...

1. There's no guarantee that Fender is going to do anything about it, ever.
2. WKSmith has designs that work. He hasn't shared them yet, but he's got them.
3. He's also said that something close to a drop-in solution is coming. He has parts on order.
4. The work he's already shown fixes the issue with some trade-offs. It seems like we're not even waiting for "fixed", we're waiting for fixed, better, and easier, at least depending on exactly what you want out of the thing.
5. This isn't a tube amp. AFAIK, working on the preamp is incredibly simple and not particularly dangerous (@WKSmith please correct me if I'm wrong about that). If that's the case, it looks like the fix would be simpler than wiring a Strat.
6. There really isn't much else that does what this does. Even the Friedman FRFRs at over twice the price have more complaints about the sound as opposed to just the noise.

As for this....
I can't imagine the Headrush or Line 6 Powerplus can touch this amp, even with the hiss.

Agreed. I haven't actually played one of the Headrush things. I should get around to that. But, I really can't imagine they're "better". They're cheap PA speakers and not special, at least based on anything I've seen. I've played PowerCabs several times and always come away with a sense of "I guess it's good" rather than "it's good".

I think I was the first person to play one of the fenders on this forum (I live near one of the top ~5 Guitar Centers in the US; they apparently had them before the leak, but the employees didn't know what they were), and I came away with the sense of "yeah, this is basically a PowerCab without all the BS that sounds better". IOW, "It's good."

I was playing louder than I normally do, and in a GC showroom that's huge compared to where I usually play (mastering is still a side-hustle for me, and guitar has always been a hobby rather than a job). But, I didn't notice the hiss, and the PowerCabs became "not a thing" in my head.

The only reason I don't own one is that my wife works in film, which means a significant chunk of our family income this year was just gone with no real warning because of the WGA strike. We're fine. I could afford it. But, it's not a responsible choice to buy some random thing that I don't really need until we catch up a bit. (Side note: projects are moving forward, regardless of what the internet "experts" are saying - I'm not sure I can say why without violating an NDA, but the fact that shows and movies are in production is public knowledge, just not widespread....also, she got a job offer within a couple hours of the WGA agreement, and no, she wasn't on strike...it's just that almost the whole industry shut down because of it.)

But at least IMHO, this is the thing that competes with running the modeler into a real cab.

It's the same promise of the Laney FRFRs, except they're in more stores and about half the price.

IMHO, based on what I have played and preconceptions...those are the three that at least kind-a make sense and are worth trying if you can: real cab, Laney FRFRs, and Fender FRFRs. Between those...I think you'd have to play them all to know. But, the Fender is most cost-effective, and that'll probably still be true after WKSmith's mod board/plans.'

TL;DR: I really like the FR-12. In the end, it's a completely clean, super high headroom combo amp with a tweeter that works with IRs. Which seems to be exactly what a lot of people want for modelers, and I kind of can't believe that it took so long for someone to make one.
 
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True , but this fix will drastically cut cost.
They would be stupid not to do another board revision. They are on version 3 now.
IVe been following this thread for a while. Great info and amazing work! Im interested in the kit (if it comes to fruition).

The one thing I cant correlate is how some people seem to have completely silent units, going so far as to say they cant hear anything even with their ear against the speaker cloth and others saying its louder than their guitar strings. Most people are reporting this with nothing plugged into the unit so there are no outside influences.

Do you have any insight on how this is possible? Or is it really just a disparity on people overblowing it and people underselling it and maybe its actually somewhere in the middle.....that would never happen on a guitar forum right?......right? :)
 
IMHO, if you've already got it and the hiss isn't driving you nuts, I'd keep it. Even if the hiss does bother you...

1. There's no guarantee that Fender is going to do anything about it, ever. yep!
2. WKSmith has designs that work. He hasn't shared them yet, but he's got them. and he likely will not share his elusive ultra low noise eq design without a contract 🤣
3. He's also said that something close to a drop-in solution is coming. He has parts on order. my first solution has to be in an outboard enclosure to A/B against the stock eq. It would be far easier to make a drop in solution and gut it.

4. The work he's already shown fixes the issue with some trade-offs. It seems like we're not even waiting for "fixed", we're waiting for fixed, better, and easier, at least depending on exactly what you want out of the thing. yep!
5. This isn't a tube amp. AFAIK, working on the preamp is incredibly simple and not particularly dangerous (@WKSmith please correct me if I'm wrong about that). If that's the case, it looks like the fix would be simpler than wiring a Strat . fixing this mess is way more complicated than a strat 😂 but it is possible to make the fix a plug and play solution. But yes working on small signal audio circuits is far less dangerous than touching a tube amps guts!
6. There really isn't much else that does what this does. yep these have some backline magic.

As for this....


Agreed. I haven't actually played one of the Headrush things. you aren't missing much, but for $160 a Bstock one can do the job. Just ok, not great tho.

I think I was the first person to play one of the fenders on this forum . You were! And thank you for that.


I really like the FR-12. In the end, it's a completely clean, super high headroom combo amp with a tweeter that works with IRs. Which seems to be exactly what a lot of people want for modelers, and I kind of can't believe that it took so long for someone to make one. me too!
 
IVe been following this thread for a while. Great info and amazing work! Im interested in the kit (if it comes to fruition).

The one thing I cant correlate is how some people seem to have completely silent units, going so far as to say they cant hear anything even with their ear against the speaker cloth and others saying its louder than their guitar strings. Most people are reporting this with nothing plugged into the unit so there are no outside influences.

Do you have any insight on how this is possible? Or is it really just a disparity on people overblowing it and people underselling it and maybe its actually somewhere in the middle.....that would never happen on a guitar forum right?......right? :)

High frequency hearing loss in guitar players is not uncommon
 
IVe been following this thread for a while. Great info and amazing work! Im interested in the kit (if it comes to fruition).

The one thing I cant correlate is how some people seem to have completely silent units, going so far as to say they cant hear anything even with their ear against the speaker cloth and others saying its louder than their guitar strings. Most people are reporting this with nothing plugged into the unit so there are no outside influences.

Do you have any insight on how this is possible? Or is it really just a disparity on people overblowing it and people underselling it and maybe its actually somewhere in the middle.....that would never happen on a guitar forum right?......right? :)
I can only speak from my experience with the FR-12 that I bough from Fender directly.

The hiss is loud enough to bother me in the studio. In a live setting though, not an issue.

But I tilt it back and point it at my head and a lot of reflective surfaces in my room. I can hear it hissing when I walk into the studio.

Some folks put the cut knob on 5. Some folks don't tilt it back. Some old folks (like me) have their ears shot out from a$$hole drummers with no dynamics.

I will say this... the eq design is noisy. It doesn't need to be. The power supply is 37.2 volts when the max rating on the ICs is 36V. The gain is fixed at a place that will clip at +4dB especially with the BS 4558 IC in the first 2 and last 2 (most important) amp stages.

For an engineer ...it's a shit show.
 
True , but this fix will drastically cut cost.
They would be stupid not to do another board revision. They are on version 3 now.
Then if they don't end up fixing it, "ego" is the likely reason. "We meant to do that!" - as Greg mentioned earlier. I guess we'll see eventually....
 
Then if they don't end up fixing it, "ego" is the likely reason. "We meant to do that!" - as Greg mentioned earlier. I guess we'll see eventually....
That's why I will be in a meeting with ego guy's boss. ...And his boss. And their contractor, and legal, and marketing,

Or they can piss off (respectfully) . And I will share the simple fix for fractal product owners immediately.
 
fixing this mess is way more complicated than a strat 😂 but it is possible to make the fix a plug and play solution. But yes working on small signal audio circuits is far less dangerous than touching a tube amps guts!

Yeah, the drop-in was what I meant. AFAIK, it's (roughly speaking) some screws, some bolts, and some plugs and more room to work in once you take out the chassis.

I did not mean to say that what you did was simple, just that you can make it roughly as simple as wiring a guitar for us.

It was also a bit of a joke. I love my Strat, but I've had a love/hate relationship with them because it's so much of a pain to pull the pick guard to work on and then being stuck with what you did until you want to trash more strings rather than leaving a cover off like on a LP/SG/etc.. It was just a little friendly ribbing of a 69 year old design that I think has that one annoying flaw.
 
Yeah, the drop-in was what I meant. AFAIK, it's (roughly speaking) some screws, some bolts, and some plugs and more room to work in once you take out the chassis.

I did not mean to say that what you did was simple, just that you can make it roughly as simple as wiring a guitar for us.

It was also a bit of a joke. I love my Strat, but I've had a love/hate relationship with them because it's so much of a pain to pull the pick guard to work on and then being stuck with what you did until you want to trash more strings rather than leaving a cover off like on a LP/SG/etc.. It was just a little friendly ribbing of a 69 year old design that I think has that one annoying flaw.
I can relate with the strat wiring! Been there many times.

A drop in solution that requires no soldering is a complete preamp build. Easy on y'all , but hard, a lot of hours, and expensive on me. This is what I want Fender to do.

A drop in board that requires a little soldering and cutting out some stuff, that uses their first 2 and last 2 amp stages and their on board power amp... is pretty easy to do and not terribly expensive. And will solve the hiss completely, but it will mean a lot of emails and customer support from me.....And it exposes my eq design to anyone.. cough cough Uli Behringer.

Bypassing the eq is one wire, cutting 2 jumpers, and adding a 10k bias resistor to the last (crossover) stages. It would need 2 bands of global eq, and a tuned PEQ block would be the eq. That's gonna be free if they don't want to play.

Fender, your move 😂
 
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cough cough Uli Behringer.
🤣

Then,

😭

No direct experience, but...yeah....

Bypassing the eq is one wire, cutting 2 jumpers, and adding a 10k bias resistor to the last (crossover) stages. It would need 2 bands of global eq, and a tuned PEQ block would be the eq. That's gonna be free if they don't want to play.

Awesome!

That still seems simpler than wiring a Strat, at least with by biases in-tact.

I know, I know...you have ideological objections to it, and I'm not here to argue with you. But, as an example...my strat has a circuit board, a terminal block and dip switches in it right now. I wanted to change the wiring, but while I was looking at my boxes of parts I decided that I'd rather pay for it.
 
🤣

Then,

😭

No direct experience, but...yeah....



Awesome!

That still seems simpler than wiring a Strat, at least with by biases in-tact.

I know, I know...you have ideological objections to it, and I'm not here to argue with you. But, as an example...my strat has a circuit board, a terminal block and dip switches in it right now. I wanted to change the wiring, but while I was looking at my boxes of parts I decided that I'd rather pay for it.
You make valid points
I looked at the FR-12 hissing and my box of parts and said hell, why not. 🤣
 
🤣

Then,

😭

No direct experience, but...yeah....



Awesome!

That still seems simpler than wiring a Strat, at least with by biases in-tact.

I know, I know...you have ideological objections to it, and I'm not here to argue with you. But, as an example...my strat has a circuit board, a terminal block and dip switches in it right now. I wanted to change the wiring, but while I was looking at my boxes of parts I decided that I'd rather pay for it.
It's not apples to apples, but I have a Godin LGXT that has a piezo pickup and Roland 13pin preamp built in. I've considered changing the out the pickups, but can't bring myself to do it because I don't want to screw up the Roland circuitry. I can't find anyone local to do the work, so I'm currently stuck with the stock pickups. They aren't horrible, but they aren't inspiring either. So I just put up with it. Someday I'll take it up to Seattle and have the pickups swapped. It is my main practice guitar, so the frets need dressing. I'm thinking of getting it Plecked at Mike Lull's Guitar Works. But just the pleck job is over $400 - ouch! The frets need attention, so I'll probably pull the trigger soon, despite the price.
 
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